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Crap.... I'm late to this party. The answer to the cup question is: "With the injectors out, conduct a coolant pressure test."
I missed the opportunity for that test. However, I don't seem to be loosing - or gaining - coolant. Also, I have run a pressure gauge on the coolant WOT and all seemed well.
If every o-ring was leaking fuel into the cup area, then if a cup was cracked, fuel should have found it's way into the coolant right?
Originally Posted by Tugly
Oil will absolutely get in the fuel rail with bad O-rings. The oil is about 1000 PSI at 60-65 MPH on the flat with no wind, and the fuel is about 60 PSI. Compromised O-ring = black fuel filter. I don't see signs of a loose injector - the stains are just from fuel slipping past the O-ring and camping there with heat. The copper washer did it's job. If it didn't, you could expect to see soot where those stains are.
Every single injector had the stains on lower part - under the fuel section.
Is this photo evidence that oil was getting into the fuel rail:
Oil was leaking into the fuel section, but that black crusty buildup is a bit odd. What did the copper washer look like? Was that #7, with the mysterious-looking oil on the compression adapter?
If you're in that deep and you want to know the condition of the cups, the pressure test witth the sticks out is how you learn their condition. I'm not saying pull the PS sticks, I'm saying if you're curious about the cups....
Oil was leaking into the fuel section, but that black crusty buildup is a bit odd.
No black crust buildup. That's just the texture of that part of the injector.
Originally Posted by Tugly
What did the copper washer look like? Was that #7, with the mysterious-looking oil on the compression adapter?
All the washers appeared to be clean shiny copper.
Originally Posted by Tugly
If you're in that deep and you want to know the condition of the cups, the pressure test witth the sticks out is how you learn their condition. I'm not saying pull the PS sticks, I'm saying if you're curious about the cups....
Yes, I understand. The problem is I already got the injectors, re-torqued and got the valve covers on before reading the suggestion about the test.
I'm sorry man, I should have had you do that test that Tugly had done. I knew about it and should have suggested it, but I didn't think about it. With your millage I fill that you'r safe... Little positive feedback for you.
I'm sorry man, I should have had you do that test that Tugly had done. I knew about it and should have suggested it, but I didn't think about it. With your millage I fill that you'r safe... Little positive feedback for you.
No problem. Hopefully none of my issues point to the cups as a possibility.
I got everything in a buttoned up. Went for a test ride. No changes.
Max Boost is still low.
Driving at 65 and going from OD to 3rd raises the EGTs.
EBP is still bouncy.
I still need to change the fuel filter. I'm going to run the tank down to 1/4 tank and change the fuel filter after I get a fresh tank of fuel in it. I don't recall reading where a clogged fuel filter causes any of the issues I'm experiencing so I'm not optimistic that it will make a difference.
I'm sure that my current fuel filter is black. I'm going to run my tank down to from the current 3/4 to 1/4 and then fill the tank and change the filter.
I assume it would be a good idea to change the oil too. I vacuumed most of the fluid that fell into the engine out. Is there any reason to rush that oil change?
With the red tube plugged onto the CAC tube clamp (so no waste gate) what is the max backpressure I should be seeing?
I've seen it in the 47ish range taking into account the EBP noise. I'm trying to figure out what direction to go next. I don't want to just throw all new injectors in or a new turbo and pray they fix this.
I'm trying to focus on EBP because a partial blockage will address these issues right:
1) Lack of max boost
2) High EGTs under load
3) Bouncy EBP (could be a red herring though - example below)
I know when the engine is off the EBP is fully open - at least the lever is against the stop. However, I don't have any easy way to see if it's moving for some reason when running at WOT.
It's hydraulically actuated right - so is there some failure mode where the hydraulics might partially close the EBP?
Also, to make sure I understand. The waste gate will always be fully open well before max boost, so looking into wast gate issues shouldn't matter.
Those EBP readings would make me start looking at a possible bad EBP sensor, a cracked EBP sensor tube or a boost leak. I would also take the turbo out and take a look. It's not too hard at all. Definitely easier than the work you just performed.
Those EBP readings would make me start looking at a possible bad EBP sensor, a cracked EBP sensor tube or a boost leak. I would also take the turbo out and take a look. It's not too hard at all. Definitely easier than the work you just performed.
I've been looking for cracks in the tube. Haven't found any. I cleaned up the tube and the area around it to look for soot as well. The tube and sensor were packed with soot. I did manage to get them cleaned out. At least enough so that I could blow compressed air through it.
I don't think the tube can be removed for inspection/cleaning. Something is going to have to break to get it out (I've tried - including spraying the fitting with kroil for days...).
If the tube, manifold or up pipes were leaking then wouldn't I see a reduced max EBP value?
I guess if the sensor was shot and was giving me reading that were too high it could be masking a leak?
I've put compressed air through the exhaust and read the EBP sensor and it was not noisy.
I did up pipes recently. The turbo seemed ok to me when it was out for that, but I really didn't know what to check. No play in the wheels, they spun fine and the EBP and waste gate seemed to move easily.
Watch the "diagnosing by the numbers" thread, you'll see some very different results there. 40 PSI EBP and 21 PSI boost with his red line capped on a stock truck/tune. The EBP still rises and falls, but you can clearly read the value. Don't look too hard at the degree of rise and fall unless you compare the waveforms on the same scale.
I think we're looking at a bum turbo, a lying EBP sensor (they read high when they fail), or a weird dynamic in the exhaust. The EBP/boost ratio is just not in line, and your EBP is plenty high enough to make gobs-O-boost. Even with a stock tune, I was able to get my truck to defuel (just over 22 PSI boost) with nothing more exotic than a 4" exhaust and an AIS.
The only other possible explanation is there is a sensor that has gone afoul, keeping the engine in warm-up mode or defuel mode. We should ask Pocket or cleatus12r how this could occur.
I think we're looking at a bum turbo, a lying EBP sensor (they read high when they fail), or a weird dynamic in the exhaust. The EBP/boost ratio is just not in line, and your EBP is plenty high enough to make gobs-O-boost. Even with a stock tune, I was able to get my truck to defuel (just over 22 PSI boost) with nothing more exotic than a 4" exhaust and an AIS.
The only other possible explanation is there is a sensor that has gone afoul, keeping the engine in warm-up mode or defuel mode. We should ask Pocket or cleatus12r how this could occur.
a) If the EBP is lying, then it could be that it's hiding an exhaust leak and the actual EBP/Boost is lower.
b) For a bum turbo, is there any specific test that can be done to check it?
c) If the engine was stuck in warm up mode, wouldn't it be seen in the high pressure oil PIDs?
e) I DO get a warning from Torque about icy conditions when it first starts, bit MAT temps seem to be ok....
f) Couldn't it also be bad injector(s) - or - if EBP is not lying then it's not likely there's a bad injector because if the back pressure achieved?
g) It sounds like it may be time to invest in a new EBP sensor, just so we can ensure we can trust the sensor reading for additional debugging?
h) Would a clogged fuel filter cause any of these symptoms (I have some OEM filters on the way...)?
i) Up piped have been done recently (no changes). Could something be going on at the muffler?
