460 vs 5.4
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
Well I think it's great that the 5.4 is being compared to the 460, but again I say look at the torque curve on the 460 at the very first post of page 4 of this thread. It is very broad, and flat just like the 5.4 it doesn't dip below 300 torque until after 4k RPM, it starts at like 350 torque at 500 RPM. It looks to me like the 3V 5.4 probably does have a slight edge above 4k RPM, but the 460 still has the same kind of torque over 4k RPM as the 5.4 has off idle, but the 460 has way more low end and more mid range than the 5.4.
The 5.4 is great, and it's leaps and bounds ahead of the 460, but it's not enough to overcome the size difference. I'd say not even a 4V DOHC could out pull a 460.
The 5.4 is great, and it's leaps and bounds ahead of the 460, but it's not enough to overcome the size difference. I'd say not even a 4V DOHC could out pull a 460.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
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From: None of your business
Well I think it's great that the 5.4 is being compared to the 460, but again I say look at the torque curve on the 460 at the very first post of page 4 of this thread. It is very broad, and flat just like the 5.4 it doesn't dip below 300 torque until after 4k RPM, it starts at like 350 torque at 500 RPM. It looks to me like the 3V 5.4 probably does have a slight edge above 4k RPM, but the 460 still has the same kind of torque over 4k RPM as the 5.4 has off idle, but the 460 has way more low end and more mid range than the 5.4.
The 5.4 is great, and it's leaps and bounds ahead of the 460, but it's not enough to overcome the size difference. I'd say not even a 4V DOHC could out pull a 460.
The 5.4 is great, and it's leaps and bounds ahead of the 460, but it's not enough to overcome the size difference. I'd say not even a 4V DOHC could out pull a 460.
Mike
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
However that 1997 chart isn't totally useless. It's still shows an acurate depiction of what the 5.4's torque curve looks like, just add a little extra through the range and thats about what the 3V's power would be. It's actually got close to the same amout of power at 1k RPM as the newer 3V. Honestly even If someone had a torque curve of the 3V there wouldn't be a dramatic change in torque through the range between the 1997 chart and the 2009 chart, horsepower would be way way better on the 09 though.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: None of your business
The 04+ and 09 should spike up faster and be flatter. There is no way that it's an accurate representation. First, the 09 has 60 more ft/lbs on E85. So that's within 5ft/lbs of the 460. Now the 460 will peak first because it does so at 2200RPM. Then like I said, the torque curve should spike and then be a relatively gentle upslope.
Then there's the HP difference, which is actually the torque doing work, and that speaks for itself.
But if you want to use the 97 5.4 graph in the same context as 1997 460 vs 2009 5.4, then you need to compare it to the 1985 460 with 214hp and 362ft/lbs.
Mike
Then there's the HP difference, which is actually the torque doing work, and that speaks for itself.
But if you want to use the 97 5.4 graph in the same context as 1997 460 vs 2009 5.4, then you need to compare it to the 1985 460 with 214hp and 362ft/lbs.
Mike
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
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From: Brumley, MO
Well I understand that it's not accurate against a 460, but I still think the torque is not far off from the 3V 5.4(non E85). Kind of funny how the tables have turned BLK94F150, in one thread it was me who was defending the 5.4, and now I'm saying the 460 will out pull it and you are trying to convince me otherwise.
Numbers on charts are not as impressive as numbers on the pants. An extra 10 or 15 torque all the time through the range is a huge difference, probably the difference between the old 2V 5.4 and the new 3V 5.4. I'm not sure about E85 I would like to see the gas mileage difference between the two, my guess is unless the E85 is dirt cheap it ain't worth it.
I love the 5.4 it's an awesome engine I'd swap my 300 six for one if I didn't already buy a 4bbl intake and EFI manifolds, maybe one day, but then again a 460 might be easier LOL seeing as how they actually came in my body style truck from the factory.
Numbers on charts are not as impressive as numbers on the pants. An extra 10 or 15 torque all the time through the range is a huge difference, probably the difference between the old 2V 5.4 and the new 3V 5.4. I'm not sure about E85 I would like to see the gas mileage difference between the two, my guess is unless the E85 is dirt cheap it ain't worth it.
I love the 5.4 it's an awesome engine I'd swap my 300 six for one if I didn't already buy a 4bbl intake and EFI manifolds, maybe one day, but then again a 460 might be easier LOL seeing as how they actually came in my body style truck from the factory.
New User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 21
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I loved reading all this develop but now it seems to be going a tad bit in circles. The "460 vs. 5.4" part is what got me in, but now it seems like were comparing an 09 f150 to a 96 f2/350 with a 460. What do the trans, axles, truck, etc have to do with the engine? I mean, this is an engine comparison, right? Maybe I'm just not seeing the big picture...
Plus, aren't we on FORD-TRUCKS.COM???? There's gotta be at least a couple of these trucks and some trailers floatin around here for a real test. Being that were including gearing, technology and drivetrain in this argument, let's see a showdown!! I would but I have neither engine sooo... no good.
Plus, aren't we on FORD-TRUCKS.COM???? There's gotta be at least a couple of these trucks and some trailers floatin around here for a real test. Being that were including gearing, technology and drivetrain in this argument, let's see a showdown!! I would but I have neither engine sooo... no good.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
I'm sure it would be easy to find a 2 F250's with 3.55, or 4.10 gears one 460 one 5.4, and both manual trannys and 4x4.
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 57
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From: Hinesville, Georgia
i will have both soon
I'm waiting on my F150 but I still have my 93 F250. My 250 is the Heavy Duty model with the 460,E40D and 4/10 LS rear-end. It is completely stock no mods other than a CD changer!
My 150 will be the 5.4, 6sp and, 373 LS rear-end.
I know what my 460 will do as I have put it to the test a many a time and I disagree with alot of posts made here about its short-comings and "paper" comparisons. You can cypher over the numbers all day long but the proof is when the rubber meets the road.
I will know how my new truck will do within the first 100 miles of towing and I'll report it on here when I'm done. Honestly, I think it will be perfect for what I need and will do with it, I just think it is no match for the 460's low end power and deep breathing ability that makes it a true heavy duty engine. I was amazed to read that the 5.4 has more HP and torque but I don't believe it till I try it for myself.
I started this post hoping there was someone out there that has both engines and compared them. A stock EFI 460 VS a stock EFI 3V 5.4.
Sorry I rambled on, I hope my new truck gets here this week.
Thanks.....
My 150 will be the 5.4, 6sp and, 373 LS rear-end.
I know what my 460 will do as I have put it to the test a many a time and I disagree with alot of posts made here about its short-comings and "paper" comparisons. You can cypher over the numbers all day long but the proof is when the rubber meets the road.
I will know how my new truck will do within the first 100 miles of towing and I'll report it on here when I'm done. Honestly, I think it will be perfect for what I need and will do with it, I just think it is no match for the 460's low end power and deep breathing ability that makes it a true heavy duty engine. I was amazed to read that the 5.4 has more HP and torque but I don't believe it till I try it for myself.
I started this post hoping there was someone out there that has both engines and compared them. A stock EFI 460 VS a stock EFI 3V 5.4.
Sorry I rambled on, I hope my new truck gets here this week.
Thanks.....
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
I'm waiting on my F150 but I still have my 93 F250. My 250 is the Heavy Duty model with the 460,E40D and 4/10 LS rear-end. It is completely stock no mods other than a CD changer!
My 150 will be the 5.4, 6sp and, 373 LS rear-end.
I know what my 460 will do as I have put it to the test a many a time and I disagree with alot of posts made here about its short-comings and "paper" comparisons. You can cypher over the numbers all day long but the proof is when the rubber meets the road.
I will know how my new truck will do within the first 100 miles of towing and I'll report it on here when I'm done. Honestly, I think it will be perfect for what I need and will do with it, I just think it is no match for the 460's low end power and deep breathing ability that makes it a true heavy duty engine. I was amazed to read that the 5.4 has more HP and torque but I don't believe it till I try it for myself.
I started this post hoping there was someone out there that has both engines and compared them. A stock EFI 460 VS a stock EFI 3V 5.4.
Sorry I rambled on, I hope my new truck gets here this week.
Thanks.....
My 150 will be the 5.4, 6sp and, 373 LS rear-end.
I know what my 460 will do as I have put it to the test a many a time and I disagree with alot of posts made here about its short-comings and "paper" comparisons. You can cypher over the numbers all day long but the proof is when the rubber meets the road.
I will know how my new truck will do within the first 100 miles of towing and I'll report it on here when I'm done. Honestly, I think it will be perfect for what I need and will do with it, I just think it is no match for the 460's low end power and deep breathing ability that makes it a true heavy duty engine. I was amazed to read that the 5.4 has more HP and torque but I don't believe it till I try it for myself.
I started this post hoping there was someone out there that has both engines and compared them. A stock EFI 460 VS a stock EFI 3V 5.4.
Sorry I rambled on, I hope my new truck gets here this week.
Thanks.....
I'm going to bet that if you let the engine work like it was designed, it will not only pull better than the 460 but also get better mileage. That 6 speed is there for a reason and that's to keep the 5.4 in its powerband. So it's going to shift and the engine is going to rev.
Keep in mind that you have to use E85 to get the 320hp/390ft/lbs. Your 93 460 only has 230hp and 390 torque.
Mike
Mike
New User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
I'm waiting to see the comparo cause this has definately become a truck vs. truck discussion vs an engine vs engine.
And I'm not one to argue with black and white, by the books paper, but it's difficult for me to argue with guys who are older than me, and much older than me, who know these fords like the back of their anythings.
Based on some rationale here, supporting the 5.4 mostly, we should all be going out and buying Yotas 5.7 and Chebys 6.2. Yeah, they've got better numbers, but is an 09 GM 1/2 ton with its power, a comparable Toyota or even the new Hemi, gonna out tow one of our old F250s?? An 02 with a 5.4? No way. A 96 with a 460? I doubt it.
Even though a lot of these parts change, "improve" or increase I don't think newer or "bigger" so to speak is neccesarily always better.
Showdown!!!!
And I'm not one to argue with black and white, by the books paper, but it's difficult for me to argue with guys who are older than me, and much older than me, who know these fords like the back of their anythings.
Based on some rationale here, supporting the 5.4 mostly, we should all be going out and buying Yotas 5.7 and Chebys 6.2. Yeah, they've got better numbers, but is an 09 GM 1/2 ton with its power, a comparable Toyota or even the new Hemi, gonna out tow one of our old F250s?? An 02 with a 5.4? No way. A 96 with a 460? I doubt it.
Even though a lot of these parts change, "improve" or increase I don't think newer or "bigger" so to speak is neccesarily always better.
Showdown!!!!
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
I forget which magazine did the test, but the toyota was faster to 60 unloaded and with a loaded trailer than every other truck in the test, and that included not only half tons, but the powerstroke, cummins, and duramax. It dosen't have more torque than the diesels, but it does have more hp.
Just something to think about.
Oh, and I really don't care for the Toy, but it was very interesting.
Just something to think about.
Oh, and I really don't care for the Toy, but it was very interesting.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
someone forgot to tell my 5.4 that hp was all that mattered..... my 5.4 has 40 more hp than my 7.3 and will walk the dog with it in a drag race. but put any kind of weight behind them and it becomes a laughable comparison.......
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
one thing people seem to forget is that just because a newer engine puts down just as much or more power than an older engine doesnt mean you have the same amount of room for improvement once you start modding them. the 5.4 3v comes with heads that flow twice as much as the stock 7.5 heads, but open up a parts mag and youll find plenty of heads for the 7.5 that have ports big enough that you can put the entire 5.4 head in. the best flowing heads made for the 5.4 are the 4v frpp and they wont even come close to the numbers on a decent set of aftermarket 460 heads.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
Likes: 4
From: Rogersville, TN
f250 5.4 2v, 4.10 gears, 5 speed
f250 7.3, 4.10 gears, 5 speed
f350 7.5, 4.10 gears, auto
f150 5.4 3v, 3.73 gears, auto
f350 7.5, 4.10 gears, 5 speed
and many other trucks not relevant to this comparison. we have pulled the same trailers on the same roads with all the trucks and came to the same conclusion. the 5.4 is faster and will win a drag race unloaded, but once you get some weight on the back of them the difference is very obvious. and thats with all of them 100% stock.