i don't like either engine really......so a true comparison

heres my take from real world experience....yes i own trucks with both motors

5.4: 5.4 will out accelerate a 460 empty while towing 3k but it has to have the **** reved out of it..... and i hate that...it makes me feel like i am really working a truck when i'm not....downshifting annoys me. but it will get the job done...isn't that he point of a truck...do what it takes to get the job done

460: tons of torque, set the cruise at 75 turning 2k towing 8 thousand pounds and it will ride it up the hill just fine, no downshifting....the 5.4 wont do that. slower then a 5.4 but id be damned if the 5.4 truck would out torque the 460 at a low rpm.

that being said, they are totally different engines......the 5.4 is more efficient then a 460 at making power per cubic inch. but i think a 460 being a bigger motor with less power per cubic inch, would last longer then a 5.4 but maybe i'm just old school.

they both work for a truck...just in different ways.

but my modified p pump cummins in my F350 would rip the back half of the frame out from under either truck at 1200 rpm.....but who cares? its a truck used for work. at the end of the day if a 5.4 makes it home after hauling all day and the 460 m akes it home.....its a good truck doesnt matter what motor is in it.

thats my piece

 

My car has a 460 and my truck has a 400 which I will swap a 460 in eventually so it will be all 385 series for me. My car is a 1978 and my truck is a 1979, it's not nor will it ever be time to retire these.

 

I have to say this just for the sake of arguement.

The 09 5.4 on E85 makes just 5 less ft/lbs than the 460 at its best in trucks. 30ft/lbs less on gas. It also makes 80% of its torque at 1000RPM. That's 312ft/lbs on E85 and 292ft/lbs on gas. I haven't been about to find a dyno sheet, but I doubt that the 460 is making 80% of its torque at 1000RPM if the peak is 2200. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll go out on a limb and say they're at least close.

If you're talking hill climbing w/o downshifting you're going to have to specify which transmission. If it's the C6 with only 1:1 3rd gear, then it probably won't downshift. It probably will with the E4OD depending on the hill. Now the 5.4 will have to rev more, but that's just the way it's designed.

Other than that if it gets the job done and you're satisfied, then whatever.

What are your MPG with either truck and how are they configured?

Mike

 

all i meant by that is that the 460 naturally makes it torque lower then the 5.4.....i didn't say that it made 80 percent of its torque at 1000.....i didnt say the 5.4 cant match the torque of a 460......just driving the two the 460 feels to make its power down lower in the rpm range then the 5.4 does.....

the 95 F350 4x4 has an E40D and gets about 12mpg empty......13 if i am really easy on it. the 2003 F350 4x4 has a 4R100 which looks similar if not the same to the E40D the 460 has 3.55s and the 5.4 has 4.10s. the 5.4 gets 14-15mpg set up exactly the same..meaning extended cab 4x4 long bed. the 5.4's auto shifts too early an downshifts too late....not letting it get its power.

both trucks are ex cab long bed 4x's xlt with ranch hand bumpers, 35" tires, lockers in both ends, 12k warn hydro winch, for what its worth they are both black in color with the factory aluminum wheels, chrome grills, tinted windows....basically identical except the year body style

i'm a diesel guy an when i see a motor shoot for 4 grand it scares me......hell even a 6.0 stroke i had to get used to reving up to 3 grand before it shifted.

E85 also gets less mpg then gas.....so for the little bit of gain in power that it adds, i could get a power programmer.

 

I get what you're saying. I'd like to see a dyno chart of both. I'd think that the 5.4 would have more torque at first, but the 460 would go up pretty fast to peak at 2200.

I'm pretty sure that the 4r100 is an updated E4OD. The E4OD was good in its day, but the 4R100 is crap IMO. I have never felt like it worked well with any engine it was paired to. I felt like it kept engines below or above thier peak. Same with the 4r70w in the F150s.

I would get a programmer as well, but I wanted to keep it stock vs stock.

Also not wanting to split hairs here but your 5.4 is a 2 valve, 260HP/350ft/lbs w/o VCT. So it's not exactly what we're talking about. But it's similar and what you have said will only be greater with the 3 valve.

Mike

 

who knows, maybe ford knows what they are doing afterall.....i guess there is a reason why they went to the modular motors

 

I don't think the 5.4 could out pull the 460, and I think the 460 makes more than 80% of it's torque at 1k RPM, look at the graph on the start of page 4 of this thread the 460's torque at 500 RPM is not far from the 3V 5.4's torque peak. The 460 has over 300 pound feet of torque till about 4000 RPM. I'd say the 5.4 has the same torque over 4000 RPM as the 460, but no more. The 5.4 only revs to like 5k stock any way which probably ain't much if any more than the 460.

The V-10 is probably better than the 460, but I'm sure there are people that would disagree. The 5.4 is quite an engine and I don't see why anybody has reason to dislike it, the only reason it's down on power is because Ford doesn't have the ***** to put a poweful version of it out in the USA. Still it would be hard for a good version of the 5.4 to out pull a 460.

 

Just imagine what a 460 could have done with today's engine managenment system and a Torque-Shift tranny with Tow-Haul! Add a hydraulic roller cam, roller rockers, and better flowing heads and exhaust and you'd have the best of both worlds. I have seen many 460's go over 200,000 miles and still be a very good engine.

 

The 460 DID have todays engine management systems. Sequential multi port fuel injection, etc..By the time you redesigned the heads and done all that, you could have just popped the 5.4 and 6.8 in the trucks, already on a proven design.

 

multi port fuel injection is so last week........they didn't have 3 valves (or 4) and variable cam timing...

 

I bet with all the more modern things the 460 would still get worse gas mileage than the V-10..well maybe. I bet the V-10 could very well be bigger than the 460 in actuall size, and also the trucks the V-10 come in are heavier too, so who knows.

My mechanic(a fellow Ford truck man), and a few other people swear up and down that the carburated 460's were way stouter than the EFI version. One things for sure a good set of heads and the 460 is more powerful than the V-10, but it's a little bigger motor too.

 

Right I'm not to up with all this engine stuff but how can an engine like the 460 with less HP and almost exactly the same TQ be any better than a 5.4 with more HP and better TQ curve and thats not even including the new Transmissions?

Is it not simple logic that the 09 5.4 would walk all over it?? Thats not even taking into account the efficiency of the new engines.

 

Simply put it's not if you're concerned with pure power or MPG. It has more HP, that's more power to do work, than the 460. It has just 5 ft/lbs less torque than the 460 in a best case scenerio, but at significantly higher RPM than the 460.

Now combine that with vastly superior transmission, driveline, and aerodynamic technology of newer trucks it's over.

The one place where the 460 will win is low RPM. It peaks at 2200RPM for torque and in truck form just will not rev as high as the 5.4. So if you're looking for diesel like operation, the 460 is a winner.

Mike

 

6 pages for this? Let's wrap it up:

specious argument, specious arguments- WordWeb dictionary definition

The V10 replaced the 460.

The 5.4 replaced the 351.

 

Sequential fuel injection and computer is all that's similar between a 460 and 330. The programming in the new trucks make the old EEC-IV stuff look as primitive as carburetors and points. 460 has flat tappet cam and the modular motors have roller cams. The old 460 has pushrods and the modular motors don't. I have yet to see a set of stock Ford pushrod engine heads where the bowls were even close to matched. The modular heads are of much better quality. The electronics in the new trucks is so superir to the old EEC-IV stuff. Torque management is much better on the newer trucks. The Torgue-Shift tranny and the new 6speed automatic in the 09 F150's is way superior to the old E4OD's of old. Torque converter lock-up strategies are mapped out way better in the new trucks. Just imagine how good the old push rod engines could have been with all that going for them. Ford wasn't enen close to maximizing the potential of the push rod engines when they dumped them for the modular engines. Fuel strategies are better in the new rigs. I could go on and on about the what ifs. The electronics are just so much better now than in the mid 90's and before. But there was a lot left on the table when Ford dumped the 460 for the modular engines.