460 vs 5.4
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,868
Likes: 9
From: Rhode Island
The 5.4's adjustable cam timing can't make up for thin air. It will still still loose just as much power as any other non-turbo engine. There is less physical air per a given amount of space the higher you up in elevation. Turbo Engines often have waste gates - meaning the exhaust going to the turbo is partially bypassed going right out the tail pipe, so there is reserve capacity. So when you start mashing the pedal down on a turbo vehicle in high elevations, the turbo won't be making as much boost as it would down lower because of the physically thinner air, the waste gate simply closes a bit more then usual, and the turbo spins a bit faster to maintain boost. If the turbo has enough "reserve" capacity, the effects of altitude can be negligible.
Those older trucks weigh considerably less then the newer ones, and the older engines have very very peaky torque and HP. So that sudden rush of power the older trucks can make it "feel" like they have more power and speed.
Those older trucks weigh considerably less then the newer ones, and the older engines have very very peaky torque and HP. So that sudden rush of power the older trucks can make it "feel" like they have more power and speed.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
This is great stuff!,..................Yes, I have spent considerable time behind the wheel of a 06 5.4 F-150 LB, seat of the pants, it feel less potent than the 94 Bronco w/5.8 I owned several years ago..............I would NEVER consider dumping my payload on that 06 150 that I routinely carry on the 93 F-250 without breaking a sweat.........To each his own.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
Like Ryan said, have you tried it? There is no denying that the 460 was a great engine, but it's yesterday's yesterdays news. If you want to talk about HP and torque, the 5.4 kills the 460 in HP and is 5ft/lbs shy in torque.
Mike
Mike
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
The 5.4's adjustable cam timing can't make up for thin air. It will still still loose just as much power as any other non-turbo engine. There is less physical air per a given amount of space the higher you up in elevation. Turbo Engines often have waste gates - meaning the exhaust going to the turbo is partially bypassed going right out the tail pipe, so there is reserve capacity. So when you start mashing the pedal down on a turbo vehicle in high elevations, the turbo won't be making as much boost as it would down lower because of the physically thinner air, the waste gate simply closes a bit more then usual, and the turbo spins a bit faster to maintain boost. If the turbo has enough "reserve" capacity, the effects of altitude can be negligible.
Those older trucks weigh considerably less then the newer ones, and the older engines have very very peaky torque and HP. So that sudden rush of power the older trucks can make it "feel" like they have more power and speed.
Those older trucks weigh considerably less then the newer ones, and the older engines have very very peaky torque and HP. So that sudden rush of power the older trucks can make it "feel" like they have more power and speed.
Mike
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
I will give the 5.4 the nod in ONE area, when I am wound up at 2,500 rpms at 60mph on the aforementioned grade with the payload. I can WATCH my fuel gage moving!, I would hope the 5.4 might be a little more stingy on the fuel consumption!
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,698
Likes: 4
From: Neenah, Wisconsin
See....now if thats the only nod you give the 5.4 then you're quite biased...
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: None of your business
Whatever. The 5.4 on its worst day is more fuel efficient than the 460 on its best.
BTW-06 Max GVWR 9,900 lbs, 93 F250 9,000lbs. I seriously don't buy 4950lbs of payload.
Mike
Edit: I'm out. I've already proven mathematicly that my Explorer with 3.55 gears can put down more torque than a 460 with 4.10s. If anyone needs me, I'll be off with the reasonable people that make sense.
BTW-06 Max GVWR 9,900 lbs, 93 F250 9,000lbs. I seriously don't buy 4950lbs of payload.
Mike
Edit: I'm out. I've already proven mathematicly that my Explorer with 3.55 gears can put down more torque than a 460 with 4.10s. If anyone needs me, I'll be off with the reasonable people that make sense.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
I think lbs. are getting lighter, and hp is being figured in new ways.........I carry that load routinely, no problem.......But, like you say, ...whatever.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 1
From: St Louis
I kind of agree with Old93 that the seat-of-the-pants dyno hasnt been impressed with the newer trucks, but a real world numbers do not lie either. I like my old junk, cause the new junk just isnt shiney enough for me to want it yet.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
This is starting to get good just like I knew it would. Now if someone could dig up a torque curve for both motors that would be cool. My 89 302 has more seat of the pants power than my 5.4 but it can barely pull it's own weight over Teton pass. I remember when the 5.4 first came out a magazine tested it against a 454 in a sled pull and the 5.4 won!
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Wow, I didn't know it was going to be such a storm over my simple question. I will have to say that numbers are numbers and real world is true! The only way to solve this one is to do a side by side comparison. I know what my 460 will do and what I have asked it to do. Just like Dr. Ruth would say, "Size does matter" I've pulled trailers up some really steep mountains running 65 and passing cars that are in the RH lane. Sure the truck will shift from OD to 2nd and then back to 3rd but it has no problems. I think its the stroke, HP and, torque.
My old 240 in-line 6 would pull anything you could tie to it just don't be in a hurry. You could lug that old 6 cyl to the point where you would think the engine wasn't turning. It only had 90hp and ungodly torque. So I feel the 5.4 will be a great tow vehicle just you can't compare it to a 460. I don't care what the books say about the HP and torque of the mid 90's 460s, I know what mine has done and what it can do. I know there have been alot of improvements to engines and transmissions to make them more efficient and provide improved power in a smaller package. It would be the same as comparing Fords Big Block 390 and the Small Block 400 (351m).
PS It has no mods. just as it came from the factory in Apr of 93
I just got the notice my new F150 will be here next week. Once I compare them, I'll post my results
My old 240 in-line 6 would pull anything you could tie to it just don't be in a hurry. You could lug that old 6 cyl to the point where you would think the engine wasn't turning. It only had 90hp and ungodly torque. So I feel the 5.4 will be a great tow vehicle just you can't compare it to a 460. I don't care what the books say about the HP and torque of the mid 90's 460s, I know what mine has done and what it can do. I know there have been alot of improvements to engines and transmissions to make them more efficient and provide improved power in a smaller package. It would be the same as comparing Fords Big Block 390 and the Small Block 400 (351m).
PS It has no mods. just as it came from the factory in Apr of 93
I just got the notice my new F150 will be here next week. Once I compare them, I'll post my results
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: Frederick MD & missing AK
......I have yet to be passed with my 460 carrying my 2,700lbs slide in camper, 2,500lbs of boat in tow, 2,000lbs of gear, people,water,dogs etc.... by a 5.4 equipped F-150/250 or any other gas powered rig while climbing a 6% grade at 6,000ft......You can stick by your opinion, I will stick by mine.
I love the older trucks, but my truck (see sig) chugged a combined wieght of 16010lbs (I have a weight ticket to prove the lbs) out of Alaska, down the Alaskan Highway, the Canadian Rockies, Montana, Wyoming, the Black Hills and the hills they call mountains (Appalachians) on the way to Maryland. There were some serious grades on the way, very long and very steep; especially considering that we took the scenic route. We saw elevations nearing 9000ft at times too. My truck never dipped below 60mph, unless the speed limit was lower (like in a National Park). I averaged about 8mpg for it though. I am not sure what the 460 gets, but my old 390 would have got 5mpg on that trip, probably less.
The 5.4L has not endeared itself to as many as the venerable 460, but in a boxing ring, the 460 would be TKO'd in the 1st round.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23,849
Likes: 20
From: McKenzie River
Thats about right..........You know, I saw a 07 4.0 v6 sohc Explorer at the wrecking yard a couple a weeks ago, on paper it puts out more hp than my crappy old 460.......Think I will swap it into my F-250!...Lord knows everything today is SO much better than back in the stone knives and antelope skin days of the mid 90s! HA ha!.......
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
WOW... has this thread ever gone twilight zone!! To think there's somebody here that actually believes a 4.6 could out pull a 460.. that's hilarious. 
If that were true why does Ford still offer bigger motors? What's the point? I mean why pay extra for a V10 or Powerstroke when you can have an all conquering 4.6? 
If that were true why does Ford still offer bigger motors? What's the point? I mean why pay extra for a V10 or Powerstroke when you can have an all conquering 4.6?