I don't believe that a 460 would be able to if a 5.4 can't. The simple facts are

09 5.4 on gas-310/365
09 5.4 on E85-320/390

The best the 460 ever did in trucks-245/395.

With variable cam tech and 3 valves per cylinder, the 5.4 makes 80% of its torque at 1000RPM. I'll bet that's better than the 460 as well. So at best the 460 has 5 ft/lbs on the 5.4, but the 5.4 kills the 460 in HP.

The 460 was a beast back in the day, but it's simply outclassed by modern engines. Heck the 4.6 in my Explorer makes 292/300. That's 47 more HP and 75% of the torque of an engine that's 2.9 liters larger.

Then there's the V10 and it totally owns any gas and some diesels that Ford has ever put in a truck.

Mike

 

Whats on paper and what happens in the real world are 2 very different things, comparing the 5.4 to the 460 is apples and oranges.......Simply put the 460 will out torque and out pull the 5.4 any day in the real world, a few minor mods and the 460 leaves the 5.4 in the dust on any day.........You read what the logging out fit uses their 5.4 for, the trucks that do the work are Powerstrokes, 460s, V10s.

 

A few minor mods on a 5.4 and you would have a moded 460 crying for mama.

The 5.4 makes more power then a 460 thats a fact. Automakers can't lie about the HP, it has to at least make as much as they claim at the crank. Torque gets you up that hill, but HP lets you get up the hill faster. Going 65 MPH up hill with 13,000 lbs requires lots of HP, not torque. You let the 5.4 rev up and it will pull the same weight as a 460 and then some.

You can't be afraid to rev a 5.4, its heads flow MUCH better then a 460's allowing it to actually make useful power higher up in the RPM range. A 5.4 can run all day at 4000+ RPM, hence why Ford also put them in high performance and super cars. It may not be fun hearing the engine scream away at those kinda revs for long periods of time, but it will handle those rpms much better then a 460 can. The 460 starts to loose power after 4000 RPM, while the 5.4 is still making more and more power till a bit after 5000 RPM. The 460 DOES have a low end torque advantage over a 5.4, but the gap is slowing being closed.

The 6.8 out-torques the 460 from idle all the way to redline though.

There is also the fact that a 5.4 truck will weigh 1000-2000 lbs MORE then equivalent 460 truck.

 

I read what you say the logging outfit does and just because they do that, doesn't mean that it's right or the only way.

I highly doubt that the 460 will significantly out pull the 5.4 with only 5 ft/lbs more peak torque. Most likely with 3 valves and variable camshaft, the 5.4 will be laying down more torque most of the time and definitely pumping out much more HP.

Now there's the question of gearing. Let's say both are only putting out 80% of thier peak torque.

460-316
5.4 gas-292
5.4 E85-312

Now the 460 came with the C6 and E4OD for autos. I'm not 100% sure on manuals, so you're on your own there. The 5.4 comes the 5r110w in the SDs and the 6r80 in the F150. We'll give the 460 the benefit of the doubt and use the E4OD's first gear as it's lower than the C6. We'll assume 4.10 gearing for the SDs and 3.73 for the F150. We'll assume 2:1 for the torque converter.

460+E4OD=7022ft/lbs
5.4 gas in SD+5r110w=7399ft/lbs
5.4 gas in F150+6r80=9083ft/lbs
5.4 E85 in F150+6r80=9705ft/lbs

There you go. The kicker is that the 5.4 will be putting down these numbers around 1000RPM and will most likely get better MPG even on E85.

Mike

Edit: Just for kicks, I did my Explorer and with the 4.6 3valve putting down 240ft/lbs at 80% of it's peak torque, the 6r60 transmission and 3.55 rear end. It's putting down 7106ft/lbs at the axle shafts.

 

So do those numbers account for drivetrain ineffeciencies?

 

Nope, but newer automatics are less power hungry then old ones anyways.

 

No they don't. They are theoretical but as Lead Head stated the newer drivetrains are more efficient anyway, making the difference even larger.

My intent was to show that even if the 460 could eak out a few more peak ft/lbs, that the superior technology around the engine allowed the 5.4 and even the 4.6 3 valve to out muscle the 460.

Mike

 

You guys put down a lot of nice figures, but I kind of put them almost in the same category with the tundras "381 hp", I think japanese horses are smaller than American horses LOL haha!.......Anyway, I dont think there are any 10,000ft mountain ranges in R.I. and cant say for "none of your business" Out here I dont think too many people would take the 5.4 over the 460 when climbing the Cascade summit with 12,000lbs in tow. All I can give you is a real world, rubber meets the road experience......I have yet to be passed with my 460 carrying my 2,700lbs slide in camper, 2,500lbs of boat in tow, 2,000lbs of gear, people,water,dogs etc.... by a 5.4 equipped F-150/250 or any other gas powered rig while climbing a 6% grade at 6,000ft......You can stick by your opinion, I will stick by mine.

 

If you are going to be towing in the mountains, you shouldn't be using a non turbo gasser anyways. A N/A Engine (Gas or Diesel) will loose 4-5% of its power for every 1000 feet of elevation. At 10,000 feet you've lost around 40-50% of your power. A turbo charged engine looses MUCH less, I believe less then 1% for every 1000 feet. Perhaps that is why you don't see any other gassers passing you, because everyone else knows to use Turbo Diesels in the mountains!

 

Hold up a second. 2700lb slide in + 2000lbs of stuff + at least 10% of 2500lb boat for tongue weight=4950lbs of payload. The 09 F350 SRW Regular cab 4x2's max payload is 4260lbs. So you're seriously overloaded for an 09.

Even with all that weight in the bed, you're only at 7200lbs which is only 3.5 tons. So 460 vs 09 F250 with 5.4 and 5r110w. No brainer, 5.4.

Mike

 

Add in a hot day to the equation it gets worse!......Oddly I rarely see the powerstrokes and cummins doing any better, folks dont seem to push them any harder then the gassers.........Real power is when you get passed by a LOADED Kenworth on the same grade!.

 

Doesn't matter because a V10 will flatten any 460 truck. But once again, power loss is across the board. So if a 460 loses X amount, the 5.4 loses X amount. The difference is that the 5.4 can change adjust its cams, which the 460 can not do and it can adjust the timing much more to reduce power loss as much as possible.

Mike

 

Have you tried in a 5.4 powered truck??? Don't knock it till you've tried it...

Of course they do....because 3/4 tons have better axles, brakes, frames, cab room, bigger beds.....ect.....and you want the most power you can get when your going to work it.....no ones debating a ps or 6.8 out towing a 5.4....


Good work....

Proof of this???......numbers are not really debateable when it comes to engine torque figures.....

So because there are no mountain ranges in wisconsin or RI we don't tow things outside our states??? 460's are succeptable to the EXACT same thing that 5.4's are ....its called thin air...

So now your saying also that the 460 out hauls a 6.8....because thats a gas powered rig.....(and it also might be that most people towing that much at that high of elevation also figured out that ps's work much better for that)

 

Wow, I didn't know it was going to be such a storm over my simple question. I will have to say that numbers are numbers and real world is true! The only way to solve this one is to do a side by side comparison. I know what my 460 will do and what I have asked it to do. Just like Dr. Ruth would say, "Size does matter" I've pulled trailers up some really steep mountains running 65 and passing cars that are in the RH lane. Sure the truck will shift from OD to 2nd and then back to 3rd but it has no problems. I think its the stroke, HP and, torque.

My old 240 in-line 6 would pull anything you could tie to it just don't be in a hurry. You could lug that old 6 cyl to the point where you would think the engine wasn't turning. It only had 90hp and ungodly torque. So I feel the 5.4 will be a great tow vehicle just you can't compare it to a 460. I don't care what the books say about the HP and torque of the mid 90's 460s, I know what mine has done and what it can do. I know there have been alot of improvements to engines and transmissions to make them more efficient and provide improved power in a smaller package. It would be the same as comparing Fords Big Block 390 and the Small Block 400 (351m).

PS It has no mods. just as it came from the factory in Apr of 93

I just got the notice my new F150 will be here next week. Once I compare them, I'll post my results

 

This is great stuff!,..................Yes, I have spent considerable time behind the wheel of a 06 5.4 F-150 LB, seat of the pants, it feel less potent than the 94 Bronco w/5.8 I owned several years ago..............I would NEVER consider dumping my payload on that 06 150 that I routinely carry on the 93 F-250 without breaking a sweat.........To each his own.