My thoughts exactly.

Did somebody say torque curves? Ask and you shall receive.





Obviously that is for the 1997 5.4. I looked all over for a chart for the 3v 5.4, but couldn't find one.

Oh well, that should fuel the fire.

 

Actually that will serve very well, it shows both motors in typical-for-Ford tune which is "not really trying too hard". The '09 version is really the first motor Ford has tried to push towards it's potential.. IMNSHO. If we just raise the 5.4 curves up to reach the '09 spec(which isn't at all what happens in real life) the TQ still falls short of what the 460 produced in completely stock form.. which I guarantee you is nowhere near it's full potential. This really is no contest, and given a level playing field where both trucks have the same tranny and axle ratio the 460 would stomp all over the little modular.. 'cause there is no replacement for displacement.

 

Subscribing.

I remember when i bought my 97 4.6 liter truck, and it didnt feel as powerful/fast as my old 302. Then I got my woman in the 97, and me driving the 89 and we raced them. No comparison the 4.6 liter walked all over my 89 302, and I never hesitated to tow a load with it, where in my 89 I wouldnt have attempted it.

I love the 460 motor, but I definately give props to the newer motors, they are getting more powerful, without needing the larger cubes.

 

part of the point to remember here is that all else isn't held equal....the new trannies are much better....lower parasitic loss....and a smoother torque curve....

 

Well said, Conanski!......No one seems to have noted as mentioned before, minor mods, cam, exhaust etc. and the 460 grows into a monster thats much more competitive with the 3v V10.....The 460 is barely awake in stock configuration.

 

I hate new trucks...new vehicles in general.. I love my 460 FORD!!!

 

I used to think the same way, but then I tried driving a newer truck, man that sure changed my tune! I didnt love the new trucks, but i sure loved the technology under the hood! (not saying that now I hate the older trucks either, cause I dont, I love them too!)

Try a newer truck one day, just for fun, you may be surprised!

 

F it, I'm back. I can't stand ignorance broadcast in the clear.

Do the same to the V10 and see what you get. What's even better is that the V10 will be able to rev to places the 460 can't even think about.

It breaks my heart to confuse all of your opinions with facts, but the 460 was only offered with what it was offered with. The new technology has made it obsolete, just like new technology will do to these.

And it was me who said the 4.6 3 valve will mathmaticly outpull the 460. It's a fact based on available gearing. The 4.17 first gear of the 6r owns anything that the 460 has ever been coupled to. Sorry, but do the math yourself if you want.

The funny thing is that I'm not a big fan of the 5.4 at all. Against the competition it's weak as heck. Times have changed, move on.

Mike

 

Well yes the newer trannys do make better use of the available power though I doubt they are really any more efficient. But 6 speeds is better than 4, and technology like VVT can enable a smaller motor to perform more like a bigger one, so the newer trucks do have some advantages. But this thread is not really about the trucks, it's titled "460 vs 5.4", so if we're going to make a meaningful comparison those non engine advantages have to be negated.

 

F it, I am gone. I cant stand arrogance broadcast in the clear.

 

Do a lot of cross country towing in first gear do you?

 

In that case it's easy. 5.4 has more HP, only 5 ft/lbs less torque, gets better MPG, has less emissions, probably weighs less, has a wider powerband, etc, etc.

Mike

 

It was just a specific example to show how tech can overcome displacement. Obviously I'm not going to be towing in first. Maybe pulling a boat out of the water though.

Mike

 

Sorry but yes, a stock 5.4 3v (the current F-150 engine), and a stock 460 both coupled to the same tranny, same weight truck, and same gearing, the 5.4 would destroy it. The 4.6 3v would destroy a 460 too. Torque is not what gets you speed, unless you enjoy lugging your engine down to 1500 RPM up a hill, torque matters very little. It is all about HP, and that is what the 460 lacks. Torque gets you moving, but HP gets you moving faster. Now the 4.6 would need to be kept higher in the rev range to keep making that HP, not making it pleasant to tow, but it would still stomp a 460.

Why do you guys even bother bringing up mods, the anemic low HP tune is how they came from the factory, why bother comparing stock motors to modified motors? If you want to play that game anyways, throw a pair of DOHC 4v heads onto the 5.4, and a set of cams, and you will have an engine capable of putting out well over 550 HP and 550 ft-lbs, with no nitrous or forced induction.

Also, the type of VCT (not VVT) on the 4.6/5.4 does nothing for performance. It is for emissions and idle quality for the most part. Allowing the use of more aggressive camshaft profiles, and less EGR while still having a nice smooth idle. If the 4.6/5.4 had VVT (the ability the alter the intake and exhaust valve timing separately) then you'd have a point, as adjusting the intake timing separately from the exhaust can increase low end torque. But it does not have this.

 

I don't know why this is getting into modifications, because someone brought up the Powerstrokes before which would wipe the floor clean with either of these, but thats because its diesel. Also, the OP was asking whether the new 3V 5.4 had more power than the old 7.5L, which it obviously does, whether it's short 5ft/lbs of torque or not. This is unmodified. With a modified engine and parts back from when the 460 was available, I think its quite obvious that they could not be as powerful as a 5.4L could be with parts from today.

With better transmissions, tuners made specifically for vehicles, the ease of finding parts today compared to in the early 90s, and the fact that if the 460 was truly so much better, why did Ford and other companies move on from such big engines. The 454 and 460 were historic engines, no doubt, but why don't they offer engines that big anymore, why stop at 6.8L, why not go to 7.5L again?