Wouldn't a better comparison be 460 vs. v10? I mean, 7.6 vs 6.8 ltr instead of 7.6 VS 5.4? Makes a more interesting discussion anyway...8 big cylinders vs. 10 smaller cylinders + technology.


Welfare-"I think the best possible social program is a job." Ronald Reagan
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]-->

 

someone was asking about the dyno on the 460 and saying theres no way it can be faster than the 5.4. using a little bit of simple math(since everyone here loves math) you can figure out the "dynos" at various rpm's because hp=(tq X rpm)/5252. if you know one of the numbers you can plug it in and get the other. the numbers im finding on the 5.4 all say 310 hp at 5k rpm and 365 tq at 3500 rpm. the numbers im finding on the 460 say 245 hp at 4000 rpm and 400 tq at 2200 rpm.

we know the 5.4 has 365 tq at 3500 rpm and we know the 460 has 245 hp at 4k rpm. so we can use a little math here and figure out their power numbers. at 3500 rpm the 5.4 is going to be making 243 hp and 365 tq. at 4k rpm the 460 is going to be making 245 hp and 350 tq. the 5.4 makes peak tq at 3500, so its going to drop off some by 4k rpm, which means at 4k rpm they are both going to be making the exact same hp and tq.

we know the 460 makes 400 tq at 2200 rpm. we know the 5.4 makes 80% of tq at 1k rpm and 100% of tq at 3500 rpm, so we can say with 100% certainty that at 2200 rpm the 5.4 makes between 80 to 100% of its peak tq. i will be very very very generous and say the 5.4 makes 99% of its tq at 2200 rpm so i dont upset the 5.4 guys(even though its closer to 90%). that means that at 2200 rpm the 460 is making 168 hp and 400 tq. the 5.4 will be making 151 hp and 362 tq even with the grossly inflated numbers. (if i used 90% it would put the 5.4 at 125 hp and 328 tq)

so while the 5.4 has higher peak hp numbers, from idle to 4k rpm it has less hp and tq than the 460. from 4-6k the 5.4 wins hands down. in a drag race the 5.4 will beat the 460 because the 5.4 will stay in its peak power band where it does make more power than the 460. but if i remember correctly, driving a truck isnt a drag race(thats the argument 5.4 guys use against the tundra). its about which truck makes more power in a useable power range. if you bring up the tundra, 5.4 guys say its not a drag race. but if you bring up a 460, they start talking peak hp and higher rpms.

 

Of course part of the equation that gets left out at times...on both sides...is that the 5.4 will operate at the higher RPMS very easily (thus utilizing the higher torque and hp) while the 460 hates it when wound that tight.

 

if youre comparing stock engines there really is no comparison between the 7.5 and v10. id take a 3v v10 over the 7.5 any day of the week. its ahead of the 7.5 in hp and tq at every rpm from idle to redline and gets better gas mileage. put a decent set of heads on the 7.5 and its a much better comparison though power wise. part of technology has included much better flowing heads and bigger cams. give the 7.5 comparable heads and cam to the v10 and the power numbers would be about dead even. where the v10 has an advantage is that when compared to a comparable hp and displacement v8 its going to be a much more efficient engine because of the smaller bore.

 

phillips91 hit the nail on the head. Stock vs stock and all vehicles equal the 5.4 will out run the 460 in a car, and maybe a truck, but the 460 will always out pull the 5.4. For the record I bet more 460 engines have pulled heavy loads going down the road at 3500 RPM than the 5.4 engines have(low gears and no overdrive), but who really wants to rev that high going down the road all the time.

However I disagree with you on the V-10 vs 460, in stock form the V-10 is better, but when you add a good set of heads and a cam it's 460 all the way not even close to even anymore.

 

one word here makes all the difference.....i said "comparable" and you said "good" lol. im not trying to give the 460 any advantages over the v10, so its fair to give them equally flowing heads and an equally matched cam.

i dont have the numbers on hand for all the engines, but i just did this comparison a couple of weeks ago for a 3v 4.6 truck vs a 5.0 truck and the numbers are fresh in my mind. the 4.6 has 292 hp and 320 tq and the 5.0 had 185 hp and 270 tq. even though they are in the same class you would have to be crazy to think the stock 5.0 would outrun or outpull the 4.6 if they were in the same truck. but does that make the 4.6 a better engine? in stock form the 4.6's heads flow a LOT BETTER than a set of gt-40 heads for the 5.0 and the 4.6 has a .070 higher lift cam than the 5.0. and thats not even getting into fuel supply, intakes and electronics, etc. so when comparing a stock 4.6 vs a stock 5.0 the 4.6 already comes with performance upgrades from the factory. its fair because its stock vs stock and lots of people leave their engines stock, but in a way its not fair because one of them is already factory "built". i just think if you want a fair comparison of an engines capability then make it a level playing field and have all things be equal.

take a 92 5.0 out of the mustang and compare it to a 92 5.0 out of the truck. same year, same engine, same technology, etc, but the mustang had 225 hp and 300 tq while the truck had 185 hp and 270 tq. nothing more than an intake change and better exhaust bumped it up 40 hp and 30 tq. give it a set of gt-40 heads and the same lift cam as the 4.6 and its going to be putting out the same or more power than the 4.6.

so while these engine vs engine comparisons are fun, they dont really tell the whole story. whether it be 5.4 vs 5.8, 460 vs v10, etc, stock vs stock doesnt always tell an engines true capabilities unless you actually leave the engine stock.

 

Having personaly owned and driven hard most all of Ford's motors over the last 30 years and all were 4x4 and for towing.
Comparing my previous 97 F350 460 to my 07 F350 V-10
There really is no comparison the V-10 Is much better in every way.
Towing Power wise : The 5.4 Is much closer to the 460 but the 5.4 gets better mileage. sorry but it's true.
I Think the new 5.4 3v with the 6speed trans will out tow all previous gas offering's including the 460/454 or whatever.
The New 3v V-10 flat out Rocks and is in a league of it's own.

 

i think the 5.4 is a good all around engine. pretty decent towing, decent gas mileage, pretty quick, etc. its not the best in any one category, but its a good mix of everything. but when it comes to sheer pulling power, sorry, but its not even in the same league as the 460. unless your idea of towing is holding it wide open at 5k rpm for your entire trip, running to the redline every time you pull out, etc. then the edge might go to the 5.4. but if both are cruising along at 60 mph in 5th gear/or OD(2200 rpm) the 5.4 is 40 hp and 70 tq behind the 460. at that same speed/rpm the 460 is only 4 hp and 11 tq behind the 3v v10. so no, its not closer to the 5.4 than the v10.

i cant speak for everyone, just myself, but when im towing i like to take my time. i shift at around 2k-2500 rpm when i pull out and keep it below 2500 rpm when im driving. yeah, the 5.4 makes more power than the 460 from 4k rpm to redline, but thats of no use to me until i start drag racing the truck and trailer instead of the car thats inside of the trailer. like i said earlier, i can drive 675 miles from my house to florida and for about 674 of those miles i am going to be between 2k-2500 rpm. at those rpms the 460 is worlds apart from the 5.4 and virtually dead even with the 3v v10.

the 5.4 will do great on light to intermediate weight trailers. on flat land or small hills it will do just as good as a 460 or a diesel. but when you start hooking big time weight to it, and im talking 15-20k lb trailers, thats where you see what kind of power your engine really has. ive had those kinds of weights on a 7.3 and 7.5 many times and dont even think twice about it. i did 15k lbs one time with my 5.4 and i wont ever do it again. thats irrelevant in an f150 forum, but very relevant in a 5.4 vs 460 debate.

 

Phillips, Again where are you getting your information from about the towing performance of the 09 f150 because everything you say about the 5.4 never seems to happen when i tow. My idea of towing is not wide open at 5k rpm as my truck don't do that and never has done. Even when at the limit of it's tow capacity. I have no problem staying at 1k-1.5k rpm when towing my trailer and at times it will change down to 4th or 5th and if you have driven a 09 F150 you will know that you cant even hear the engine until it hits 3.5-4.0 rpm and even when the truck is on the rev limiter it is still a reasonable level and like everyone has said who cares if ya have to rev it to get that extra power you need! I can almost put money on it that the 09 f150 with the 5.4 is quieter at 4000rpm than the 460 is at 2000rpm. I don't see people's issue with giving an engine more revs. It's as if revs are a bad thing and must not happen when you tow. I know i would rather be in my f150 all day long with the 5.4 over the 460 so to say it's the better tow engine is wrong. Yes the 460 may have more TQ at lower RPM's but i couldn't careless when i can change down a gear and rev a little higher and still be smoother, quieter, More comfortable and more economical as i do it.

 

Well I guess after reading all of the posts here there is no true answer. I will know "In my Mind" how the 2 compare when I take my 5.4 on the road towing my camper. My 460 and the 5.4 have no mods and I will know how it compares after a few miles. I'll post what I have found!

To add to the discussions........

I agree the V10 is one hot engine, It is a great alternative to a diesel for those of us that hate diesels.

The 5.4 is a great engine for the F150 considering its size, towing and, load limitations.

The 4.6 is an ok engine for the F150 if you never plan on max tow or max cargo

The V10 is only in the F250s +

The diesels are great if you tow or haul long distances 75% of the time. The worst thing to do to a diesel is shut it down.

The 460, atleast the one I have is AWESOME!!!! Its power starts at idle and yes does peak lower than the 5.4, but, if you can tie it to it, it will move it. When I tow'd my 10k camper, i would set the cruise and it ran 60mph @ 1800rpm all day, well atleast between gas stops.

As for the comment "the 5.4 will outrun the 460"..... Well... I need to be tactful...... no way!!!! I may have to stop and get gas but I'll pass you at the next one. My 460 is definatly quicker than my 5.4

I know this will stir up the nest

 

im not saying you HAVE to run 5k or run it to the redline to tow something. im saying you HAVE to do that to make more power than the 460. theres a difference. simple fact is that the 5.4 does not make more power than the 460 until both of them hit 4k rpm, so that extra peak hp or high rpm tq is not going to make a bit of difference unless you wind both of them that high. the other thing worth mentioning is that even though the 5.4 makes more power than the 460 when both are at 4k to redline, the 460 makes more power(tq) at 2200 rpm than the 5.4 does at any rpm. so even if you turn yours 4-5k rpm you are still going to be 50-60 lb/ft of tq behind the 460 thats turning 2200 rpm.

all people ever talk about with trucks is hp this and hp that, but hp doesnt mean crap in anything other than racing. hp belongs in the mustang forum. your 5.4 on E85 has more hp than our international big rig wrecker, but would you be willing to have a pull off with them? my 5.4 has 100 more hp at 4k rpm than my 7.3 has at 2k rpm, but which tows better, my 5.4 at 4k rpm or my 7.3 at 2k rpm? i could put a rev limiter at 2k on my 7.3 and outpull my 5.4 all day long.

quiter doesnt make it a better engine and quietness is based on what kind of exhaust you run. how many 5.4 guys have a nice set of flowmasters or other aftermarket exhaust on their trucks? i dare say they arent too quiet. many of us prefer louder trucks, which is why aftermarket exhaust companys are in business in the first place.

like i said earlier as well, whether you like high or low rpms is a personal preference when youre towing the kind of weights you would with an f150. but we arent comparing f150 vs f350 here. this is engine vs engine alone. the benefits of the 460 arent as obvious until you get up in bigger weights or on big hills. i would tow 20k lbs with a stock 7.3 or 7.5(or v10) any day of the week anywhere you wanted me to pull it. i doubt anyone would say the same about a 5.4.

im not arguing with you over which would be a better engine in an f150. theres a reason why the 460 and 7.3 didnt come in an f150. its over kill for what youre going to be towing with it. but theres also a reason why the 5.4 doesnt come in an f450/550 and the 460 and 7.3 did.

 

I think this will as the only figures i can find for a 460 doing 0-60 are in f150's and they range from 9.2-9.9 secs and i found a highly modded forced induction 460 f150 and that done 0-60 in 6 secs. The 09 lariat 4x4 5.4 is rated any anything from 8.0-8.6 0-60 and i take it yours is an f250 which i guess would be even slower than the f150 with the 460?

 

What year was a stock 460 offered in a F150? I thought it was only the 250 and up. I think the biggest thing offered was the 351/400m

 

That could be why im having trouble finding data for f150's 0-60 with the 460. Perhaps they are engine swaps people have done there self. Still though even if you said the F250 with the 460 could do 0-60 in 9 secs it's still slower than the 09's. My truck feels a lot slower than our mazda 6 v6 but i have no problem staying with her when we pull away. These new trucks are deceiving because of being so quite and smooth.

 

I see your F-250 also has 4.10 gears and your F-150 has 3.73's maybe thats why your F-250 is faster.