so is there a heaven for squirrels, cats, dogs, mosquitoes, cockroaches and ducks?

the rate of death on the highways for insects must exceed the rate of admittance into mosquito heaven.

you want 19 morons to fly planes into buildings heavely populated with people? brainwash them right? tell them there is this thing called religion, and that their maker would want them to kill people.

im not trying to make light of september 11th, it was a tragedy and should have never happened. the point i am trying to make is, religion is brainwashing.

ALL wars start from 3 things, money, power, and RELIGION. if religion is so great, why do so many bad things stem from it?

how do churches afford to pay BILLION dollar settlements to children who get MOLESTED by PRIESTS?

if churches are to serve the lord, why do they need money?

keep an eye on your children when within 300 yards of a church.


BuiltToughF250

 

by the way, i "personally" feel that religion should be practiced at home, ( if at all )

there is a "drive in church " in wisconsin. you dont even have to get out of your car, until the collection plate came around id suppose.


"all men were born with 10 fingers; no man was born with a belief of god" just a quote from a newspaper i read somewhere along the long


BuiltToughF250

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Oct-02 AT 05:59 PM (EST)]>Just plain blind faith. No proof. That won't work for me
>anymore. I envy you with the ability to believe in something
>that you will never be able to prove while alive. I used to
>believe, but no more. I can't believe the God that is in the
>Bible would allow some of what has happened.


you say blind faith won't work for you, believing in something you will never be able to prove while alive. BUT, that is exactly what you are doing. That is what we are ALL doing. EVERYBODY is believing in somethng they can't prove. I can't prove there is a God and you (nor anyone else) can't prove there isn't a God.
By chosing to not believe in a God, an individual has (by definition) faith that their belief is correct, or accurate, otherwise why would they believe it. An athiest has faith there is no God and a Christian has faith there is. Only one can be right, for the two are mutually exclusive.
I really encourage you to read "Can Man live Without God" by Ravi Zacahrias. It is a book arguing for the belief in God but it argues primarily from a logical standpoint and not one using the Bible as evidence. I have long thought, what good is it to argue from the Bible if you are in discussion with someone who doesn't believe the Bible.

enduringexplorer: instant message or e-mail me your address, I'll buy you a copy and send it to you.

later guys,
Brian A

 

Wow, you hit a hot button with this topic.

My religion can trace its leadership straight back 2000 years to the point where Jesus said to Peter you are my rock and on you I will build a church. Does that make mine any better than any other? I don't think so. To me God is divine and without flaw, man and all of man's creations are not. That includes religion and all religious writings including the bible. Since it seems most here are of the christian following we don't get anyone weighing in with other views.

Here's my take on it. Any organized religion can be good and do good things. This includes christianity, hinduism, muslimism, and judiasm. As long as they promote tolerance, treating others well, service and charity any of them will do. But when they get perverted in the search for power-- and they all have -- that is when I start to have a problem with them. And like a nation today, it's not usually the general practicioners that are the problem but their leaders that take them down the wrong path.

Does God exist? Yes. I personally have seen too many things (miracles) to be able to deny this. Is any one religion the 'true' religion? No. Most if not all established religions share similar beliefs. Christianity has so many flavors it's often hard to distinguish one denomination from another. But mistake one denomination with another and both sides get real upset. If being a part of an organized religion will encourage you to live a better life to a higher standard then bravo. But why can't all groups realize that one can't be everything to everyone? Why can't different groups agree to coexist peacefully? If they want to spread thier message how about a friendly invitation (as to dinner) that can either be accepted or politely refused?


P.S. I'm right and anyone that disagrees with me will burn in hell.

 

>P.S. I'm right and anyone that disagrees with me will burn
>in hell.


That was a much needed laugh.

 

Yeah, God is there. His ( Her, It's, the almighty is beyond gender ) name is Yahweh. His son was Yahushua, who was sacrificed for our benefit. We now have the Spirit, Rhuka Kodesh, with us constantly. I believe that Yahweh created the world. I see the eveicence all around us. Our world could not just be happenstance. I believe that our world was created in 6 days........but who am I to say how long is one of Yahweh's days ? Same as ours ? 1000yrs ? Million years ? I have no idea. How long did Adam and Eve live in the garden before the fall ? Couple of days ? Billions of years ? Long enough for dinosaurs to come and go.......? Do I believe what I read in the bible ? Yeah I believe the old testament. I will acept alot of the new teastament ideas......but I don't take it word for word. IMO, Nazarene Judiaism is 'correct' and all of the others are wrong. That doesn't mean that I think Christians are all going to hell. I think there are alot of believers out in the world who just don't have all of the information I have been privileged to read. I used to think of myself as a 'Christian'. Then I wanted to learn more about my faith, and so I started studying......"Jesus" (Yahushua) was a Jew, as were all of his disciples. I think part of his mission was to restore proper Judaism, not start a whole new sunday religion. AS for all of the other planets, did Yahweh put people on any of them ? I don't know...I have no way to tell one way or the other. DF

 

>>For those who don't believe, that is your right and your
>>choice. I have no problems with that. I do have a problem
>>with those who force their beliefs on others.
>>
>>
>>
>>Chuck
>
>
> Chuck, i love ya but thats a bit hipocritical.

Ice, Ice,Ice, me? Hypocritical? Say it ain't so!

i see
>christians trying to push their beliefs on anybody who
>doesnt agree with them.

Debate yes, push no.If they're forcing, or pushing then they are not following the teachings of Christ.

christians are always trying to
>"save" people from their own religon or beliefs and believe
>their god is the only and true god.

Ice, you're stereotyping all Christians. Not all of us are "you'd better get Jesus or you're gonna burn in Hell" types.I do however believe that my God is the only true God. No apologies there.

the examples of this are
>almost endless. a few of my own personal ones:
>
>
> a co-worker of mine and i were sitting next to one another
>at lunch reading different sections of the news paper. in
>the section he had there was a photo of a hindu woman
>"clensing " herself of her sins in a river. he turned to me
>and said" you know thats not gonna work, she needs jesus" to
>which i said "it works for her".

My position-total agreement with you. But MY beliefs are otherwise.
>
> another one is a sign at the exit of a church positioned so
>only the people who go to this paticular church can see it
>when they exit says "you are now entering the mission feild"
>and under lists the passage in the bible it comes from.

Nice sign! I'm with them. I'll see about posting one at my church!
>
> im sure everyone has had someone come up to them on the
>street, hand you a little booklet or pamphlet of somekind
>and tell you to find jesus.

They should have offered! Not pushed. And if the person was interested, explain it. If not, walk on!

not to mention all the
>billboards i see along the highway telling me id better find
>jesus or else.

Well, we are supposed to tell people about Jesus.
>
> i dont mind a healthy debate on this subject but the last
>thing i want to hear is a christian telling ME not to push
>my beliefs on them.

What I MEANT was I had a problem with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hare Krishnas, Atheists, or anyone else for that matter who FORCES their beliefs on another person. BTW, Jesus felt the same way. He hated organized religion as well, but He said, "whosoever will", not "everybody better or else." It's a gift, not a required course.
>
> also, why is it that whenever a real hard pressing question
>is asked of a christian about their beliefs and why, the
>answer is always something like " well, god works in
>mysterious ways " ?

I didn't give that answer. If you'd care to look up the last time E.E. posted something of this nature, I went into great detail to answer all his questions as best I could.So did Brian, Paul, and Ron.

If you're interested in answers, real-not put-off, then I'll be glad to e-mail you a number of my messages to my Sunday School class on these very topics and questions.

Now, don't you call me no hypocrite you Bernie Kosar-likin',obviously-a-pagan,why-don't-you-just-accept-I'm-right-believin',Viking dude!!

I love ya man!!lol

Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Read not to comdemn but to consider

 

>
>
>
> so is there a heaven for squirrels, cats, dogs,
>mosquitoes, cockroaches and ducks?

I don't believe so.
>
> the rate of death on the highways for insects must exceed
>the rate of admittance into mosquito heaven.

Absolutely.
>
> you want 19 morons to fly planes into buildings heavely
>populated with people? brainwash them right? tell them
>there is this thing called religion, and that their maker
>would want them to kill people.

Works for them. #2 fundamental of the Islamic faith. Convert or die.
>
> im not trying to make light of september 11th, it was a
>tragedy and should have never happened. the point i am
>trying to make is, religion is brainwashing.

You're right.
>
> ALL wars start from 3 things, money, power, and RELIGION.

Very observant. Full marks, padowan.

> if religion is so great, why do so many bad things stem
>from it?

Religion is man's idea. Not God's. God has a relationship thing in mind.Man just messes up the works.
>
> how do churches afford to pay BILLION dollar settlements
>to children who get MOLESTED by PRIESTS?

They got a lot of money? I don't understand the question.
>
> if churches are to serve the lord, why do they need money?

Because it takes a great deal of money to pay support people at radio stations, printing shops, etc. We serve the Lord by carrying out His command, which is to spread the Gospel, not start a mutual fund. I'll admit the money thing is much abused by some churches. You shouldn't stereotype though.
>
> keep an eye on your children when within 300 yards of a
>church.


There you go stereotyping again. Reconsider please. Those weren't every church. Just some bad apples.Very bad apples.

Chuck

 

>
>
>
>
> there is a "drive in church " in wisconsin. you dont even
>have to get out of your car, until the collection plate came
>around id suppose.

There's a "Church of Kurt Cobain" in Seattle. Wonder what they collect? Money maybe? hmmmm.....

Chuck
>
>

 

>ancient man created "gods" to explain things they didnt
>understand.

You were there? How old are you?

..Early religious leaders got such a good deal
>out of it they perpetuated the myth to their advantage..and
>it continues to this very day.

Good deal? Constant attacks from other religions, persecution from non-believers in their particular religion,etc. where's the good deal?
>
>Try calculus..it is more reliable and easier to use.

And oh so fulfilling. Nothing like getting direction in life from your calculator.

Chuck

 

If I may jump into this discussion once again to add another 0.02 (if your keeping track I have invested 0.04 already!!! )

I would like to mention a book I read called "The God Part Of The Brain" written by Mathew Alper. www.godpart.com He goes into why, in his opinion (which I agree), we as humans need to believe in a "god".

<<stepping back to alow disscusion to continue >>>>

 

I probably shouldn't reply, but the devil made me do it.

>I would like to mention a book I read called "The God Part
>Of The Brain" written by Mathew Alper. www.godpart.com He
>goes into why, in his opinion (which I agree), we as humans
>need to believe in a "god".

I don't know the direction this book goes. I am assuming that it tries to justify why so many believe in a higher being and it blames it on a part of our brain trying to justify how, why, things occur.

I guess my response would be: What would the world be like if Christ had never appeared? Now there are quite a few that would say that it would be a better place: No priest's molesting kids, no religious fanatics, no people killing others because they believe a certain faith, etc. But if you look at the changes that have resulted since He was here, they are profound. Some are more obvious than others but one man has changed how the world gets along. No one else has been able to do that to that extent.

It is a choice to believe in God. Some do and some don't. And some find that it chases their conscience their entire live. Meaning, you can say that the sun does not rise in the east and set in the west, but you will spend every day trying to explain away the obvious.

Then again, some people use a different compass. (Are we talking about true north or actual north)

 

i am a catholic and have attended catholic schools my entire life. i used to doubt God and trace everything to science. wait until you get into a serious car accident and think you are going to die. you know what happens? you get the most special feeling, you start praying, i dont care if you dont believe in God, God talks to you at that moment of possible death. when your loved ones get sick and the only thing you can do is pray, it pays off. ive never been able to explain that chill and case of goosebumps you get when u are in deep prayer or when u are asking God to forgive you. there are plenty of books out there that boost you faith. our lives are short, why is there a reason to deny God? everything that is taught is GOOD not evil. whats the problem? how can you live without knowing that you can always go to God? some of these people who dont believe in God will have a rude awakening. go visit europe and check out vatican city, it will do wonders to your faith. all i know is that i have something to live for, and thats to help people. if you dont agree with me than thats fine, i just think it is really sad that people would deny God. i certainly hope you are just not out for yourself. good morals comes with the religion, how can you have good morals if you dont believe in the teachings of Jesus? im going to shutup now because i cant convince anybody they just have to experience God themselves.

 

The original question here was "Do you believe in God?" My answer yes i do always have always will. I also believe in creation not evolution and as for the Bible as written the answer is yes again.

> would you think God to be somewhat of a pr!ck

Now this is annoys me and i consider it insulting.

>I haven't referred to God as a pr!ck, just asked if allowing these >things to happen would make him one. It's a question, not a >statement.

No matter how you put it it's stll an insult and disrespctful.I'm with Chuck when he states that and i quote(the wording and nature in which you used it shows contempt for God as well as others,Christians like myself, who frequent this site.)


>Satan's biggest lie is convincing other's that he doesn't exist. I >think the blame should be shifted to the proper person

Amen to that!


>It is a choice to believe in God. Some do and some don't. And some >find that it chases their conscience their entire live.

That sum's it up pretty good Dan.



Wiz

[link:www.clubfte.com/users/thewiz427/index.html|"Wiz's Place"]

 

God?......YES..... I voted. I'm sure He's flattered. If one studied "Theology" as much as he studied his truck, he might really learn something worthwhile.