Do you believe in God? Do you believe in creation versus evolution? Do you believe in the Bible as written, or is it just a good book about how to behave and be decent?

The thing that brings this up is all the fighting between religious groups and also, all the evil that happens to so many good people everyday.

If God is all seeing, all knowing, and has a plan for everyone, why don't we just sit back and wait for it? Why do we go out and seek revenge for things that have happenned? Religious types will tell you that God has his reasons for allowing something terrible to happen, and that it fits into His plan, but if something good happens, it's a miracle!

That being the case, would you think God to be somewhat of a pr!ck for allowing children to be abused, molested, and killed?

How about for allowing 9/11 to happen?

How about the sniper in the DC area?

Are these truly the actions of a merciful and caring God?

What do you think? Do you believe? Did you believe once, but not anymore? Have you ever believed? Why? Why not?

 

Very deep subject, Enduringexplorer. Everyone is going to have different opinions and beliefs. I've never been a very religious person. However, I did spend a couple of years in a Christian high school. I was hesitant to go but looking back on it now, I'm am very glad that I did. My GPA went WAY up (and I actually retained what I learned) as well as I was able learn about the Christian religion.

I believe that there is a higher being and someday we will meet him. What I always had a hard time taking a grasp on was Creation. My pastor and I would go round and round about it and I wasn't afraid to share my views. As much as I believe in God, I also believe in evolution. I literally see it happen before my eyes so how can I deny it? As for evolving from a fish? I don't know about that one.

9-11-2002: We lost a lot of friends and loved ones, but God's army just got bigger. In my eyes, for every positive action, there is a negative action. The sad part is that the negative actions are few so to make up the balance, they are usually to the point of pure evil. I really do wish we all could live in a Utopia but I don't think that planet Earth is the place. I tend to think that Earth is like a school and we are learning as well as being tested for the next 'grade', if you will. The bastages that are doing the evil deeds? Well, we can only assume they are flunking.... BIG TIME.

Graffe.

 

Heres where i become a major minnority!! I do not believe in "god",or anything of the likes,my thoughts are evoloution broughts us to where we are now and if we treat this planet better and each other better we will continue to prosper (sorry i know my spelling is horrible).
I believe we, as humans, are hard wired to beleive in some form of a diety to prevent us from going crazy knowing that once we die thats it, lights out,party's over, sorta like cats are hard wired to chase mice,dogs to chase cats,ect..
All the people in history, even those back woods tribes in austrailia still being discoveried believe in some form of diety, they all may be different and do different things but my feelings are it because we(as humans) are afraid of death and this is our minds way of making our mortality more acceptable..

just my 0.02 please no hate mail

 

Hmmm. Tough one here. I believe Pacino in Devil's Advocate said it best about God being rather sadistic just watching all these horrible events unfold on Earth. His own game of axis and allies! Anyway, I tend to believe in things that I can see, touch or feel. Being from American Indian decent has a lot to do with this. Earth, Wind, Fire, blah blah blah. On the other hand there are people that get on better knowing that someone has their back and that even though they make mistakes that's ok and God will accept them for who they are. Everyone has their beliefs, I believe in me. Make your own destiny!

 

How about us being the creation and nurturing of an alien race? You know, the Chariots of the Gods, Gods from Outer Space, The Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, Atlantis.
Many things are supposed to have been far out of reach of mans intellect and ability, yet they were created. Who, or what, helped?

 

2002 A.D.

 

Good topic, very deep, many possibilities.

The Universal Mind or Collective Unconscious is one thought. Are we all part of a greater whole and each of us temporarily set apart in a carbon based "DEMO UNIT" like a subroutine under a larger program that is being de-bugged?

Religion and Spiritualism are not the same -

Religions are structured forms under which spiritualism is observed and taught. Each religion tends to have many similar essential parts to others in the world, but environment, history, and ethnicity cause them to be tailored to the participants.

Are all religions then different expressions of the same set of ideas? I would say predominantly so, even though in some there are major portions of the others which seem to either be missing or fundamentally altered.

I have often wondered what a composite religion made up only of those tenets that are found in all other religions would look like.

~ It would likely make up a bible that was an unusually short one to read.

 

>That being the case, would you think God to be somewhat of a
>pr!ck for allowing children to be abused, molested, and
>killed?
>

Tim, please don't be disrespectful to myself and others on this site by referring to my Lord as "somewhat of a *****". The value of this post as an intelligent discussion vehicle drops exponentially when people become offensive.

Posts such as Truckertaz' didn't bother me at all even though he and I share radically different opinions of this topic. Kudos, 'taz.

That said, yes, it is a very good topic and it's interesting to see some of the opinions.

In a previous post, you mentioned that you no longer believed in God. Brian A and myself went to great lengths to explain some of your questions as best we could since we both profess Christ.

I hope for someone's sake that something said in this discussion will make a difference.

I consider myself a highly intelligent person as well as highly skeptical. I have examined the religion question from all angles and looking to the evidence, I choose to believe that God exists and loves us,but will not micro-manage evil, but for those who seek Him, He guides and protects.Now that I know Him, I know this to be true. I make no apologies.

For those who don't believe, that is your right and your choice. I have no problems with that. I do have a problem with those who force their beliefs on others.



Chuck

 

>That being the case, would you think God to be somewhat of a
>pr!ck for allowing children to be abused, molested, and
>killed?
>
>How about for allowing 9/11 to happen?
>
>How about the sniper in the DC area?
>
>Are these truly the actions of a merciful and caring God?


No, these are the actions of uncaring & unmerciful humans.

Why is that that most want all the good "stuff" from God but do not want to follow His rules to receive it?

He gave all of us the ability to choose our actions. FREEWILL. Stop blaming God for OTHER people's actions. He can only guide your path when you let him.

Over 10,000 children were born today. Scripture says that children are gifts from Him. Did you thank Him or just blame Him for the bad stuff that happened today?

Why is it that those who do not believe only blame Him for the bad things that they see and not give Him "credit" for the good things?

Satan's biggest lie is convincing other's that he doesn't exist. I think the blame should be shifted to the proper person.

 

Quote: For those who don't believe, that is your right and your choice. I have no problems with that. I do have a problem with those who force their beliefs on others.

You are a good man, Chuck.

Graffe.

 

This is such a broad and deep subject, I’m only gonna comment on a very small part. The reason God allows terrible things to happen is because he gave us a free will to do whatever we want, be it “good or bad”. If He intervened everytime we screwed up, then we’d just be a puppet. Course with this freedom comes personal responsibility, our actions do have consequences that we will be held accountable for. This is what I believe, I don't force it on anybody else but you asked. No hate mail please.

On the lighter side, hey Greywolf, got enough stickers? All you need is the race car now!

Barry

 

I have given the God thing alot of thought over the years - more so of late since I'm about to reach my "four score and ten". I really believe that there must be a creator (God) because of one simple, scientific fact - NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING. If we could go backwards through the evolution of our current, ever-changing, expanding uviverse, we would come to a time when there was nothing, and only a creator could have started from nothing.
What form (if any) God takes, if He hears the prayers from this speck in the universe, if there is a devine plan or it's all random - I DON'T KNOW. I don't believe that a baby born in Africa who starves to death at age 3 months or a mother shot in the head by a sniper are part of "God's Plan". I do believe that man has free will and we screw things up without devine help or direction. I don't know if this life is a one-shot deal or a step on a journey, but I try to treat it as the only chance I'll get and enjoy every day - anything beyond that is just a bonus.
Dono

 

Deep subject for our shallow minds !!!!
Concerning "evil" in the world: Applying logic, you can't have evil without having anti-evil (read: good). Just as you can't have up without down, hot without cold, dark without light, you can't have evil with good. Who defines good? It can't be man, for then there would be as many definitions of good and evil as there have been humans who have ever lived and ever will live. it has to be something "beyond" humans. I believe it is God (The God of the Bible).
To my way of thinking, by arguing there is evil in the world, one will, in a backhanded way, argue there is a God.

I used to believe in evolution, not any more. My belief changed, not because I am a Christian, but because I studied and read on the subject. Based on all I have read, evolution just couldn't have happened. Too many observable laws of science would have to be violated for evolution to occur. (ex. enthalpy, entropy, etc). Much more but this is a different subject all together.

When we look around the world today, I believe we see the sum total of man's doings, not God's. This does involve specifics of my faith. I believe we are imperfect (sinful) and it's sort of what-you-see is what-you-get. I think it is a big mistake to judge God based on Man's doings. Yes, I know, God created man. But he created man with a brain and the opportunity to choose. Otherwise he could have just created "robots". He didn't, and we are here, so each of us are free to choose what we want to believe or not believe.

There is SO, SO much that could be discussed here but I'll (try to) end with this....
If you don't believe in God, how did all that is here get here??? You can't say the Big Bang then Billions of years of evolution. How did the stuff get here for the big Bang??? Where did it com from? Somethng before the Big Bang? What you get to - and this is an absolutely unavoidable result of regression- is an UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE. In other words, if "stuff" is here now, it had to be put here (created) by something in order to be here. I believe the answer is God. Only God can create something out of nothing. PLEASE, if you don't believe this, what do you believe? How did all this stuff get here? It didn't just "appear" at some point in the past without something making it appear.

i'm reminded of a joke.
Many years in the future mankind has developed science to the point where they can prove God was not necessary for the creation of man and life on earth as we know it. So, the chief elected scientist is visited by God and is allowed to demonstrate his highly developed scientific process. God reached down, got a handfull of dirt, formed it into the shape of a man and breathed life into it. TA DA! God created a living man. The scientist, confidently told God, 'we can now do the same thing!" With that he reached down and picked up a handfull of dirt. "WOAH!" shouted God, "create your own dirt!"



Brian A

 

I don't really subscribe to organized religion's version of a god. I beleive that god is more of an energy force that made us possible but that isn't in the bussiness of constantly watching over his creations. Also as others have posted I feel that no benevolent god would allow so many bad things to happen to good people if he had the power to stop them. Therefore it leaves us-the human race responsible for our own actions.
Just my 2 cents.

Anyway, I have attached the last stanza of the Frank Zappa song Dumb All Over. please do not take offense, IMHO this song was intended to spark contemplation of organized religion not God, but I know that some of the lyrics to the song really struck a cord with me and helped me to see the bigger picture.
The link to the lyrics to the full song is here

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6095/Lyrics/dumb_all_over.html

I encourage you all to read the lyrics and think of how the song parallels some of the current world situation.

"HEY, WE CAN'T REALLY BE DUMB IF WE'RE JUST FOLLOWING GOD'S ORDERS
LET'S GET SERIOUS! HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOIN'! HE WROTE THIS BOOK HERE,
'N THE BOOK SAYS: "HE MADE US ALL TO BE JUST LIKE HIM," SO...
IF WE'RE DUMB, THEN GOD IS DUMB,
('N MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE BIT UGLY ON THE SIDE)" FZ(You are what we is)

Once again, please do not be offended, the song just suggests ideas, that you can accept or reject as you wish.

 

I am only 20 years old and I can't honestly say that I have found any kind of rock solid belief in god or anything else for that matter other than myself my family and my good friends.

I do however believe in the theory of eveolution and science more so than I can make myself believe that there is something out there that made us and is letting us alone or that all these horrible things are some sort of plan.

I have gone to church I used to have to go with my parents they eventually quit making me go because they understood that I didn't appreciate what was being said. Why didn't I appreciate it? becasue i don't enjoy having other people thoughts and ideas ramed into my head by overzelous people who from my experience blindly believe in the bible. They, I don't think, have ever questioned the bible. I think Jesus Christ was a real person. i think that he was a great preacher and got many many people to beleive in him and folllow him. I do not take the bible word for word i think it is merely a book of stories that try to set examples of how you should live. And that is it.

I live in southern Alabama right now and it is very hard for some people to understnad that i don't go to church and that i pretty much don't believe in God because I haven't had the idea of god proven to me. I know people that won't even acknowledge evolution or the fact that there might be aliens, and that just perplexes me to be so close minded and believe so blindly in one thing I just don't get it

Sorry it was so long i could have gone farther though.


JON