Funny that you should mention throwing away your "NOCO Genius charger that was basically useless, nothing "genius" about it."

Enersys lab tested the NOCO Genius, and agreed with you.

One will not find any NOCO Genius charger on the Odyssey battery recommended charger list.

Link to current recommended charger list: Odyssey Battery - Recommended Battery Chargers

Odyssey has been publishing (and periodically updating) their recommended charger list for years. I have pdf files of older lists dating back 15 years. Despite each of those lists over the years having Odyssey vetted and verified battery chargers made by a lot of different companies, not just chargers branded by Odyssey, still none of those lists, over any of the last 15 years, ever had any version of the NOCO Genius smart battery charger listed.

Which was disappointing, because the first smart charger I purchased was in fact a NOCO Genius, which can be seen laying in the tray in between the two Bear ARBST battery load testers on my cart below:



Back in 2008, before the Enersys retail automotive battery business skyrocketed, the entire Enersys staff was more accessible at that time, so I had a couple of telephone conversations directly with the engineer who authored some the original technical white papers presented on the earliest Odyssey website, some of which might still be found there.

One of the topics we spoke at length about was charging profiles. The previous year, in 2007, I had switched to Odyssey Extreme TPPL AGM batteries (branded as Sears Die Hard Platinum's at the time, but still made by Enersys) and I had proudly explained to the engineer that I was not using a traditional constant current transformer type "dumb" battery charger, but was instead using this special smart charger that I had purchased from a battery distributor, called the NOCO Genius. This was again, years before NOCO became so popular.

The engineer said Uh Oh... that is the worse charging unit you can use. I said why? He said the charging algorithm is wrong. So wrong, in fact, in their testing, that they couldn't figure out why NOCO's engineers would design the profile that way. It was because of charging profiles like what they found with the NOCO Genius, that they began producing a list of recommended chargers.

Taking the battery manufacturer's word for it (what else could I do, I had already bought the batteries), I stopped using the NOCO and bought a different smart charger chosen from the list (at the time) of Odyssey Battery Recommended Battery Chargers. But I did not chose an Odyssey branded battery charger. Here's why:

Enersys manufacturers batteries, not chargers. The Odyssey branded chargers that Enersys sells are made by battery charger manufacturers. Since 2010, Enersys has already burned through two different charger manufacturers, forever discontinuing two different families of Odyssey branded chargers. Perhaps Enersys is kind of picky about their chargers? I don't know all the reasons for the following now discontinued battery chargers, but someone at Enersys intimated that Enersys wasn't happy with the product performance and therefore dropped it.

Refer to the recommended list link above for other brands of chargers, however the Odyssey branded battery chargers, both discontinued product families as well as the recently introduced new models, are listed further below to illustrate a relationship between charger size and battery size. Notice that different current ratings of each charger are matched to different sized batteries, where the battery size is measured not physically, but electrically, in current capacity, expressed in Amp Hours.

A Recipe For Optimal VRLA TPPL AGM Battery Charging:


Quite a few FTE members report choosing a smart charger in the 5 - 10 amp range. Yet Enersys recommends that charger current be 40% of the C10 Amp Hour rating of the battery. For example: An Odyssey Extreme Group 65 AGM battery that has a 74 Ah 20 hour rating and a 65 Ah 10 hour rating would therefore call for a 26 amp rated charger. 65 x 40% = 26.

Here are the two families of discontinued Odyssey battery chargers, in case someone reading finds one of these at a garage sale. Bargain hard, as repair parts may not be available.

First Family Of Odyssey Branded Chargers: DISCONTINUED over a decade ago.
- TMAX-6A-1B: 6 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 16 Ah sized batteries
- OMAX-12A-1B: 12 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 27 Ah sized batteries
- TMAX-12A-1B: 12 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 27 Ah sized batteries
- OMAX-25A-1B: 12 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 65 Ah sized batteries
- OMAX-40AS-3B: 40 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 92 Ah sized batteries
- OMAX-50A-1B: 12 Amp rated; for charging 7 Ah to 114 Ah sized batteries
* (3B = 3 Bank charger, for charging 3 batteries at once)


Second Family of Odyssey Branded Chargers, built by a DIFFERENT charger manufacturer. ALSO DISCONTINUED, a couple of years ago.
- OBC-6A: 6 Amp rated; for charging 8 Ah to 16 Ah sized batteries
- OBC-12A; 12 Amp rated; for charging 8 Ah to 28 Ah sized batteries
- OBC-20A; 20 Amp rated; for charging 8 Ah to 55 Ah sized batteries.
** (NONE of this 2nd Family of Odyssey branded chargers were optimal for charging a Group 65 Odyssey battery!)


Third Family of Odyssey Branded Chargers, Recently Introduced in September 2024, Currently Available Models Manufactured by CTEK

Group 1: Standard Chargers; Currently Available; Manufactured for Odyssey by CTEK
- OBC-5A: 5 Amp rated; for charging 5 Ah to 50 Ah sized batteries
- OBC-15A: 15 Amp rated; for charging 15 Ah to 150 Ah sized batteries
- OBC-25A: 25 Amp rated; for charging 25 Ah to 250 Ah sized batteries

Group 2: Shop Chargers; Not Discontinued but Not Available; Manufactured for Odyssey by UNKNOWN
- OSC-35A: 35 Amp rated; for charging 35 Ah to 350 Ah sized batteries OUT OF STOCK
- OSC-70A: 70 Amp rated; for charging 70 Ah to 700 Ah sized batteries OUT OF STOCK
- OSC-105A: 105 Amp rated; for charging 105 Ah to 1050 Ah sized batteries OUT OF STOCK


What is most interesting is the Odyssey branded chargers manufactured by CTEK are punching far past their weight, in terms of current output versus highest amp hour battery that they are rated for charging. Why did Enersys / Odyssey change their mind?

 

So has anyone else tested not doing anything? I dropped AGM's into my 2018 and did absolutely nothing to the truck and they went 3.5 years flawlessly before she was traded in for good and now has a new home, with a new owner who I'm sure is still enjoying the Interstate AGMs I installed. I don't plan on doing anything to my '24 either when I switch to an AGM. The OEM flooded battery already sounds very weak when starting the engine.

 

At a minimum, I would change the battery profile from flooded to AGM and reset the BMS telling it a new battery was installed.

Bob

 

THAT looks exactly like the one I just threw away!


Fascinating! I never actually bothered to investigate why my NOCO Genius charger wasn't satisfactory. I just was never pleased with how it charged the batteries: something always felt 'off'.

We have ~25 or so car & marine batteries in various equipment and stationary applications, and reading this thread now, i am surprised I haven't actually invested in a better/pro charger a long time ago!
The Schumacher I mentioned in a previous post does a [surprisingly!] good job though, albeit a little slow (10A max.).


Suggestion: this thread should probably be made into a Sticky/Wiki, as it now contains so much good info.

 

When I switched the OEM battery to an AGM (preventative; after only a couple of months of the truck being new) I switched to the AGM profile, but never reset the BMS.
I was [maybe falsely?] under the impression the truck's BMS would 'figure it out' by itself, eventually.

 

My understanding is that the BMS changes how it charges the battery over the life of the battery so you need to tell the truck that a new battery has been installed to restart that profile. That makes sense to me.

The other thing I have seen and read is that the BMS resets the SOC after an 8 hour period of inactivity. The way I understand this is that the sensor tracks charge and discharge to determine the SOC of the battery. I think that the reset is just a reset to make sure that the calculations don’t get out of whack. This one is a little fuzzy to me but that’s the way I understand it.

Bob

 

Thanks for all the input. Based on my voltage measurements, I don't think any of the SOC choices would be bad; except maybe 80%; that just doesn't sound right. As for resetting the BMS; no idea if necessary or not. Since I don't know how to do it, not going to worry about it.

After reading 150+ post, there is only one real conclusion for me: I have become OCD or just have too much time on my hands. Before this forum and FORScan I would have slapped new batteries in and never given it a second thought; exactly what I will be doing with my Explorer in a couple weeks. Now, excuse me while I go read some more threads and find something else that I didn't know I should be worried about.

 

Until sufficient testing demonstrates a repeatable cause and effect relationship between Target Battery State Of Charge % settings, and either battery charging voltage, in all conditions, including conditions very difficult to test, such as while driving, for long distances, under load, in high ambient temperatures, with the engine hot... or battery longevity... I do not think that enough has been shared on this thread to know what SOC settings really mean, or if they have any effect at all.

For example, at least one FTE member has reported frustration that their Ford dealership service technician was not even able to find the setting to change the SOC while the truck was in the dealer's service bay and connected to FDRS. The member reported pulling up images and threads on FTE of FORScan screens showing SOC, and was incredulous as to why the latest Ford bidirectional scan and software update system, at a dealer no less, could not pull up what folks were finding on FORScan.

Let's pause and consider this for a moment. Ford's bidirectional interface is VIN aware, and BOM aware (Bill of Materials the truck was built with). If there is a general software build, but only some of the software parameters are applicable to that particular VIN, it is possible that the Ford FDRS system is smart enough not to present inapplicable options to the dealer service technician, limiting settable options to only what is meaningful and appropriate for the original build of that particular VIN. This is speculated as a potential possibility, not stated as a verified fact.

Recognizing this possibility, and taking it to the extreme of potential irrelevance, it could be that SOC settings apply to the batteries of electrified vehicles, yet the SOC setting parameter is included in a general, VIN agnostic software template that FORScan reveals. Once again, this is speculative contemplation... I have no idea where or how some computer savvy folks in Russia get the keys to Ford's software. I have no idea how Ford creates their own software.

But I do have this idea that it has not been unequivocally established what actually is being changed, if anything, when folks alter the percentage values of SOC% in a Super Duty.

 

Agreed; I'm not convinced changing the SOC parameter does anything.

 

I was at Costco a few days ago, and Costco has the Interstate Group 65 AGM with the handle that folds down into the top of the battery for $179, and looks exactly like the Walmart Group 65 AGM. I was going to buy them, but I didn't have my truck with me, and the closest Costco is close to 200 miles away from where I live, so not being able to return the old batteries for the core charge I'll get the Walmart Batteries.

 

Not only returning for the core but the warranty at Costco is not as good as the warranty from Walmart.

This is Interstate's warranty not Costco's policy. Costco does no go beyond what Interstate warranties.

 

​​​​​​​Great points about the warranty and returning if the battery became defective.

 

Did you have your phone with you?

And you didn't take a picture of the batteries you were looking at?

After all of this discussion about them?






^ THIS ^ IS WISDOM.

That makes good battery buying sense.

If length and strength of battery warranty is part of the decision making matrix of battery selection, then convenient access to where to make good on that warranty is part of the value equation.

That is the very reason why we take an interest in who makes what battery.

Which reminds me... let's circle back to that Interstate Group 65 AGM battery with the built in recessed flip handle that folds down into the top of the battery that @Rich1961 saw at Costco.





Any eagles flying around out there reading this?

What do you see?



Differences.

Not just in case colors, but differences in handle shape, width, lift location, and structure. Differences in lid perimeter reliefs, and the use (and lack thereof) of individual cell vent caps. Differences in case base constructions, molding, ribbing, reinforcing, and profile.

These are both Interstate AGM 65 batteries with built in recessed flip handles that fold down into the top.

But they are decidedly different batteries. Different manufacturer. Different internal strapping. Different internal plates.

The white bottom, green top, MTZ-65 Interstate, with the recessed flip up fold down handle, is a Thin Plate Pure Lead (TPPL) AGM battery made at the same plant, and using the same processes, as Enersys uses in the Odyssey Performance line of batteries (Odyssey Performance is a lower cost line than Odyssey Extreme, but both still share some characteristics in common).

On the other hand, the black bottom, black top, MTX-65 Interstate, with the recessed flip up fold down handle, is the Made in South Korea Hankook-ATLASBX manufactured battery, having a top lid perimeter rib design also found in Exide batteries overseas, and that is identical in physical appearance to one of the styles of Everstart Group 65 AGM batteries found in Walmart, as shown in this thread.

Speaking of batteries shown in this thread, there is yet a THIRD design of Interstate Group 65 AGM battery.



Also called the MTX-65, the strap handle battery above is identical to the other style of Walmart Everstart Group 65 AGM batteries, made by Varta / Clarios.

Whew! At least three (3) different Interstate Group 65 AGM batteries out there. There is a reason why they say that a picture is worth a thousand words!

And you were standing right there in Costco, and didn't take a photo of that battery?



Thanks for your word picture, and for sharing your wisdom regarding buying batteries locally, for ease of exchange if warranted.

 

The Battery I looked was the all black one (second picture). Sorry, I walked out of there with a cart full of things, and intended to go back in and get the batteries. After thinking about it for a few minutes I decided not to purchase them. Yeah, I had a brain fart and should have gone back in and taken some pictures and I plead guilty for this major discretion and have failed the forum bigly, very bigly. I promise to do better .

 

if you want the best, buy odyssey. All the ultra4 racers who aren't sponsored by optima run them.

I bought one on Summit and it went weak after 3 years from sitting, the 5 year warranty was no questions asked. They literally sent me a brand new battery and I kept the old one to run a weed sprayer on my atv.