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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by twobelugas
the first gear on the old 6 speed was 4:17:1. That means a 10 speed with 3.73 has first gear equivalent to 4.20 on the 6R100.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf

By that logic, since the highest ratio offered with 6 speed gas F250 and F350 was 4.3, and a majority of them had 3.73, all gas trucks should be dead by the side of the road from tranny blowing up from gear hunting and 6.2 gas motors dying from constantly being lugged.

So either ford trucks have been dying left and right and we just don't know about it, or that the 4.30 imperative upheld as gospel by a small group of users is mostly based on conjecture and perhaps, just perhaps, users' own confirmation bias.
When did I say it was going to blow up? The lower gearing gives you more torque to get your load moving easier. I always get the lowest gear ratio possible in any gas vehicle and in many cases It’s not low enough, so I regear it. It would be nice if the offered 4.56 or 4.88 gears as an option.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 00t444e
When did I say it was going to blow up? The lower gearing gives you more torque to get your load moving easier. I always get the lowest gear ratio possible in any gas vehicle.
See, perfect example, that's what I was talking about when I said preconceived notions.

It's no different than diesel owners saying "I always buy a diesel if it is possible in a pickup, a diesel motor has more torque to get your load moving easier".

Gas pickup motors have come so far in the last 20 years, you don't need to always opt for the shortest possible gearing anymore to get a job done. Combine that with the very low first gear on the 10R1xx transmissions, the "4.30 or else" doctrine is as relevant as "diesel or else" philosophy.

Same with what I said about confirmation bias. "I have always done well with 4.30s so it is the only way to go for whatever job there is to do regardless of what motor and transmission choices are available."
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:03 PM
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Ever had a modern turbo charged diesel or EcoBoost?

IMO the gear selection helps tailor the driving experience to be more torque friendly vs relying on the horse power and downshift to do the work.

Regardless of what gear you get you can lock out gears to limit your maximum final drive, at the weight you are talking about power shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CarterKraft
Regardless of what gear you get you can lock out gears to limit your maximum final drive, at the weight you are talking about power shouldn't be a problem.
That's crazy talk, you cannot possibly expect the elite gas 4.30 owners to debase themselves by having to manually lock out gears and only have 8 or 9 gears to work with.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:13 PM
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This is just like the 3K oil change rants, or the gas vs diesel rants. It is all opinion and nothing more. OOh I want the lowest so I can move the fastest while towing. Like it really freaking matters, it doesn't. 6 speed vs 10 speed, valid argument, 10 speed, you won't notice the difference on the low end at all. On the upper end, yes the lower gear will put you in a higher gear, but so what? the end result is it will still maintain the speed regardless which ratio is back there, and does it really matter if you are spinning in 8th gear, or 10th gear?

This ain't the 80's or 90's anymore when engines put out low numbers and had 4-6 gears to play with where rear ratios mattered, today, they don't.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by twobelugas
See, perfect example, that's what I was talking about when I said preconceived notions.

It's no different than diesel owners saying "I always buy a diesel if it is possible in a pickup, a diesel motor has more torque to get your load moving easier".

Gas pickup motors have come so far in the last 20 years, you don't need to always opt for the shortest possible gearing anymore to get a job done. Combine that with the very low first gear on the 10R1xx transmissions, the "4.30 or else" doctrine is as relevant as "diesel or else" philosophy.

Same with what I said about confirmation bias. "I have always done well with 4.30s so it is the only way to go for whatever job there is to do regardless of what motor and transmission choices are available."
Correct always get the lowest gear ratio possible, a 4.30 geared truck will pull 15% better than a 3.73 geared truck with the same engine and transmission. I buy a truck to work with not put around, so the lower gear ratio works best for me, not to mention it accelerates faster than a higher geared truck. 1st gear in the 10 speed isn't that low either.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by twobelugas
That's crazy talk, you cannot possibly expect the elite gas 4.30 owners to debase themselves by having to manually lock out gears and only have 8 or 9 gears to work with.
It won't be popular but it will be possible
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
This is just like the 3K oil change rants, or the gas vs diesel rants. It is all opinion and nothing more. OOh I want the lowest so I can move the fastest while towing. Like it really freaking matters, it doesn't. 6 speed vs 10 speed, valid argument, 10 speed, you won't notice the difference on the low end at all. On the upper end, yes the lower gear will put you in a higher gear, but so what? the end result is it will still maintain the speed regardless which ratio is back there, and does it really matter if you are spinning in 8th gear, or 10th gear?

This ain't the 80's or 90's anymore when engines put out low numbers and had 4-6 gears to play with where rear ratios mattered, today, they don't.
Gear ratios matter today just as much as they did back then, physics hasn't changed.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by twobelugas
That's crazy talk, you cannot possibly expect the elite gas 4.30 owners to debase themselves by having to manually lock out gears and only have 8 or 9 gears to work with.
You can always lock out high gears but you can't make your 1st gear lower, that's where having the 4.30 gears helps.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 00t444e
You can always lock out high gears but you can't make your 1st gear lower, that's where having the 4.30 gears helps.
Sure if you want to rip apart what you are towing. You plan to take it to the track to see how fast you can go? I have had a couple things break loose in my 5th wheel from taking off to fast with my F-350 with 3.55 now with the F-450 and 4.30 I take it easy accelerating. The point is, the engines put out gobs of power, so unless you are racing, it doesn't matter, the load WILL get moving quick enough with 3.73.

It takes a special kind of stupid to race to a red light.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by acdii
Sure if you want to rip apart what you are towing. You plan to take it to the track to see how fast you can go? I have had a couple things break loose in my 5th wheel from taking off to fast with my F-350 with 3.55 now with the F-450 and 4.30 I take it easy accelerating. The point is, the engines put out gobs of power, so unless you are racing, it doesn't matter, the load WILL get moving quick enough with 3.73.

It takes a special kind of stupid to race to a red light.
Even if going the same speed the 4.30s will be getting it done easier due to the increased torque multiplication. Really makes no sense at all in a gas truck not to get the lowest rear gear possible. The lower gears does everything better, and still operates well below the engine's torque peak at highway speed in 10th gear. Since you have a diesel all of that doesn't apply as much in your case since the torque peak is at a much lower RPM. I would want 3.73 or 3.55s with a diesel.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TestPilot57
Looking at a crew cab F250/7.3 gas crew cab short bed, the default is 3.73. Besides being my commuter vehicle (super long 11.8 miles one way) the primary purpose of upgrading from a 1/2 ton will be to tow a 9-10k travel trailer. I have always gone with the lowest (highest number) gears, but it seems like with a 10 speed tranny that even the 3.55 gears* would be "OK".

We will be towing in every possible reasonable road conditions throughout the lower 48, probably some Canada and Alaska.

*I will be going with the "locking" option. BTW - what is that/how does it work? Is it automatic and a full-on lock? Manually lock? LSD? Curious because the default is a "non-limited slip" from which I infer that a limited-slip is available but the options are for an "Electronic locking"
I would avoid the 3.55 at all costs. I test drove a 7.3/3.55 and I was not impressed at all by it. It felt like it was lugging constantly. This is just my opinion and I think it was a mistake to offer that combination and make it the default ratio in the MY 20-22s. I think mpg was driving that decision at Ford. On my 7.3 test drive I heard other noises that shouldn't be which scared me, so I opted for the 6.2/3.73 as it has a good reliability record and it meets my needs. For 2021s the 7.3 was an "upgrade" with a default downgrade 3.55 rear gear, made no sense to me. I was buying off the lot so I didnt have the choice of 4.30s. This is just my opinion.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 00t444e
You can always lock out high gears but you can't make your 1st gear lower, that's where having the 4.30 gears helps.
How low of a first gear do you need? What load are you towing that a 4.7:1 first gear with 3.73 axle ratio is incapable of moving off the line?
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 04:11 PM
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Towing above 70mph with 4.30s will just get worse fuel mileage. I'm turning 2k rpm at 70mph in 10th gear with 4.30s. That is high. Even my old 8.1L got the best fuel economy between 1500 and 1700rpm. This engine is no different I get the best fuel economy around 1700rpm and at 70mph it is impossible for me to reduce rpm any lower than 2000. 3.73s got my 17k lb trailer rolling on a 15% grade from a dead stop.

OP want to commute less than 12 miles and occasionally tow 10k lbs. 4.30 gears offer him zero benefit over 3.73s. The t
load requires XXX amount of horsepower and torque to move it at a given speed. Doesn't matter if you have 3.73 or 4.30 it will still pull the same load attention same rpm to maintain XX speed. If it will do it with 3.73s it is an advantage to ha e higher gears because the majority of the miles (unloaded) are just fine with a higher gear. When towing you can tow in 9th but you could still very well be in 10th gear with 10k lbs and downshift on hills. Who cares about your automatic transmission shifting? If you want 4.30s buy 4.30s but don't give advice based off of your completely different use case or preference.

3.73 gears with the same engine ARE more capable with a 10spd than 4.30 gears with a 3 spd.
 
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Old Mar 15, 2024 | 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 00t444e
Correct always get the lowest gear ratio possible, a 4.30 geared truck will pull 15% better than a 3.73 geared truck with the same engine and transmission.
You are not gonna believe this, but these auto transmissions they put in the SDs these days, they automatically downshift when ECM and TCM decide it's time for some torque multiplication.

If you really want to go plebian, you can also downshift it yourself. But that's very advanced technique that only the pro drivers know how to do.
 
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