Thank you Big Orn!!!!!

 

I've not done it myself, but my church-going sister in law tells me that her preacher presented a timeline comparing the Old testament to accepted science. She claims that the timelines and event sequences are frighteningly close. I found that very interesting, and again consistent with argument from both sides of this board. Who knows for sure? I don't, but going along with the advice in the big book seems pretty harmless and often helpful.

Say, do you know why the Celts have wakes? I think it is pertinent to this very discussion.

 

How do I know this? Logic tells me so......consider the following premise:
The real question is not whether the Bible is inspired, but whether it is true. If it is true, it does not need to be inspired. If it is true, it makes no difference whether it was written by a man or a god. The multiplication table is just as useful, just as true as though God had arranged the figures himself. If the Bible is really true, the claim of inspiration need not be urged; and if it is not true, its inspiration can hardly be established. As a matter of fact, the truth does not need to be inspired. Nothing needs inspiration except a falsehood or a mistake. Where truth ends, where probability stops, inspiration begins. A fact never went into partnership with a miracle. Truth does not need the assistance of miracle. A fact will fit every other fact in the Universe, because it is the product of all other facts. A lie will fit nothing except another lie made for the express purpose of fitting it. Alter a while the man gets tired of lying, and then the last lie will not fit the next fact, and then there is an opportunity to use a miracle. Just at that point, it is necessary to have a little inspiration.

It seems to me that reason is the highest attribute of man, and that if there can be any communication from God to man, it must be addressed to his reason. It does not seem possible that in order to understand a message from God it is absolutely essential to throw our reason away. How could God make known his will to any being destitute of reason? How can any man accept as a revelation from God that which is unreasonable to him? God cannot make a revelation to another man for me. He must make it to me, and until he convinces my reason that it is true, I cannot receive it

 

bigdmizer,

I saw you posted this before and I find it quite eloquent.
It's a quote is it not?

 

Sinjin,
Yeah I posted this one before in the Token Thread. Since the same subject is being raked over the coals here, I thought it was fitting to interject a copy of my post here also. Seeing how the Christians tend to ignore a well reasoned argument. Only one person has responded to my theory ( I took it from a paper I wrote in college) and that response didn't even come close to offering a "reasonable" alternative theory.

 

kenny,

I'm of the Celts, please expound.

 

Would that be me? Hey, sorry if the answers weren't good enough for you, but what can I say? They were right off the top of my head! I wonder how long it took you to write that essay in such detail and thought. If I actually wanted to dive into the depths of my mind and find a reasonable answer or theory, I would. BUT, even if I did, it would change no ones mind about God or the lack thereof. People have their beliefs and stick to 'em, and there's probably no way I'd ever change their minds through my thoughts.

Then again, my answers were based on something I believe and have faith in. Your essay was based on your own opinion about things man couldn't possibly concieve.

 

As of now there seems not to be a socially acceptable word to express what influence the Bible has on those that ingest the *spirit of the words written in it. Inspired is a general term that was given to the affect it had on certain people after they discovered the Truth via the words of the Bible. So we cannot just say, “Inspired” and have that be the significance of the written word of God. Before anyone can say whether the Bible is true or not they have to leave the natural world and “slip into” the supernatural. Then whether the Bible is true or inspired will never be a question.

*spirit of the words – The words of the Bible are alive. Unlike other books, these words can spiritually and physically lead you to a new understanding for man’s (male/female) purpose on earth. Since we cannot shed this skin and become spirits, then we have to learn how to put the flesh under submission until we die. Until then and only then the closest we’ll ever get to God in through our spirit, and the trail we travel is mapped out in the Bible.

 

ok i have to put some of my thoughts in here. i have grown up in church, went every sunday. also did volontering and comunity work with youth groups. i listened to the stories, learned how to lead a good life. after that i found there is no right religion. none of them are right. but any religion that is a part of helping and loveing everyone no matter what, i respect. the religions that are so stuck up about worshiping a god of some sort, and living a life of fear? none. i don't belive we were put on this world for that. i belive we are all here to help and love eachother. everyone is equl and has the right to be there own person, and have there own thoughts and faiths. i think we have to slow down in life and enjoy all the things there are. nature, weather, mankinds great acoplishments, and love for eachother. life is to great and short to worry about what happens when we die. i bet if we all lived life this way, if there is something after life we will be there.

 

That's a scary thought. So what if you're wrong and hell is where your wrong answer leads you? I'm not trying to say you're wrong or start a fight, but what if? What if your idea of how we are all supposed live is wrong? What if there is a God when you die? I think this life is too short not to worry about what eternity will hold for you.

 

are you telling me that if there is a god and i live my life helping others and loving everyone for who they are that i will go to hell? i sure hope that if there is a god, he is forgiving and understanding enough to know my confusion and see that i maybe i was still a good enough person that he will save me. i do belive there is something after death, but i am going to life life the fullest and hope that whatever there is after life i am good enough to be apart of it.

 

What I am saying is that according to the Bible, you can't just live a good life and go to Heaven. That's the big "what if" that I'm posing here. John 3:16, plain and simple...IF the Bible is correct.

~For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and that whosever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.~

 

miss post