Electrical Fire----NOW WHAT?
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
Likes: 199
From: Phoenix, Az.
Took the old girl out for a drive on Saturday! All the way down to Atlanta Hartsfield International Airport. Thinking of becoming an Uber Driver.....-Just kidding.
Happy post here. No problems at all. Drove incredibly the entire trip down and back. It's about 65-70 miles round trip!
Just wanted to thank y'all for the help. JeffFAFA especially.
Happy post here. No problems at all. Drove incredibly the entire trip down and back. It's about 65-70 miles round trip!
Just wanted to thank y'all for the help. JeffFAFA especially.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Well Gentlemen, it's been WAY over a year with no trouble out of Black Thunder. I had it parked for a while late this summer and now I can't keep the battery full. After installing a brand new battery, it was dead in 2 days. I looked under the hood to see if there were any obvious issues and didn't see anywhere where wires were damaged, although I did see some little varmint ate my washer fluid hose. I just pulled the Negative cable off the battery and checked with a Test Light and there is no indication of a complete circuit. I did the same thing with the Positive Cable/Terminal and nothing there either. So I'm wondering how I can check to find where I have a short. What order do I go in, where do I start etc. Any and all help is appreciated as always.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
"Dead in two days" is a pretty healthy draw, seems like it should light up a test light.
Try the ammeter setting on your VOM? Modern cars and trucks have an acceptable parasitic load of 50 milliamps or 0.05 amperes, but old school iron should basically be 0.00 ... because they don't have all the clocks and gee-gaws & heated massage seats and wi-fi and the rest of it.
Charge the battery up thoroughly with an external charger. This will take a long time if it's dead. Don't try to do this with the vehicle alternator.
Now, it may just be alternator not be charging? Once battery is re-charged, re-install it. Run up the idle to around 2000 or so with the headlights on and heater fan on HI, radio playing etc, the idea is to really load up the alternator to get a true test. Measure voltage right at the battery posts. Should be north of 13.8 volts, somewhere around 14.5 maybe. More if it's super cold temperatures.
Try the ammeter setting on your VOM? Modern cars and trucks have an acceptable parasitic load of 50 milliamps or 0.05 amperes, but old school iron should basically be 0.00 ... because they don't have all the clocks and gee-gaws & heated massage seats and wi-fi and the rest of it.
Charge the battery up thoroughly with an external charger. This will take a long time if it's dead. Don't try to do this with the vehicle alternator.
Now, it may just be alternator not be charging? Once battery is re-charged, re-install it. Run up the idle to around 2000 or so with the headlights on and heater fan on HI, radio playing etc, the idea is to really load up the alternator to get a true test. Measure voltage right at the battery posts. Should be north of 13.8 volts, somewhere around 14.5 maybe. More if it's super cold temperatures.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,601
Likes: 1,174
From: San Jose, CA
After it's charged, leave it disconnected from the truck for two days (if you don't need to drive it that is) and see if the battery is dead again.
Or if you have to drive it, just disconnect the battery at night to see if it lives.
A battery can fail internally and go deal all on it's own without any outside influences. Just a bad battery, and though it usually happens to older batteries, it can happen when new or old.
Especially when that battery has been drained a time or three before, and then perhaps sits for awhile. Sounds like yours falls into that potential category.
If the battery stays fully charged after sitting disconnected, the battery is OK and there is a drain somewhere in spite of you not seeing it initially with that test.
In this case, for out vintage of vehicle it's "usually" the alternator and/or regulator. The alternator has diode arrays inside that can fail and since it's hard wired directly to the battery the diodes let a certain amount of power go to ground. Kind of a "partial short-circuit" I suppose you could call it.
You will usually be able to feel the alternator body as quite warm, or the charge wire warm as well.
Even though both regulator and alternator were replaced, there's no comparison between today's parts and the ones we could get twenty years ago. You can still get good ones that last a lifetime practically, but it's way more common to get parts that wear out or fail in a much shorter time. Anywhere from 1 day to three years maybe, but when things used to last for decades while the body turned to dust (rust) it's a factor in our hunt for gremlins.
But at least you can do the test with disconnecting the cable to see what happens.
Good luck!
Paul
Or if you have to drive it, just disconnect the battery at night to see if it lives.
A battery can fail internally and go deal all on it's own without any outside influences. Just a bad battery, and though it usually happens to older batteries, it can happen when new or old.
Especially when that battery has been drained a time or three before, and then perhaps sits for awhile. Sounds like yours falls into that potential category.
If the battery stays fully charged after sitting disconnected, the battery is OK and there is a drain somewhere in spite of you not seeing it initially with that test.
In this case, for out vintage of vehicle it's "usually" the alternator and/or regulator. The alternator has diode arrays inside that can fail and since it's hard wired directly to the battery the diodes let a certain amount of power go to ground. Kind of a "partial short-circuit" I suppose you could call it.
You will usually be able to feel the alternator body as quite warm, or the charge wire warm as well.
Even though both regulator and alternator were replaced, there's no comparison between today's parts and the ones we could get twenty years ago. You can still get good ones that last a lifetime practically, but it's way more common to get parts that wear out or fail in a much shorter time. Anywhere from 1 day to three years maybe, but when things used to last for decades while the body turned to dust (rust) it's a factor in our hunt for gremlins.
But at least you can do the test with disconnecting the cable to see what happens.
Good luck!
Paul
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 4,093
Likes: 14
From: Lind, WA- Eastern WA
If it's not a dead cell in the battery, I'm guessing that it will come down to the regulator, or the alternator. Do you have the 3G alternator set-up? If not, and the alt. turns out to be the problem, do the 3G swap. IF all three of those items are good, then check out the ignition switch. Let us know what you find.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
Likes: 10
From: **** hole San Jose ca.
Sometimes it's stuff we don't notice like the door jam light switch broken so they get pushed inside the body housing out of the way.
Over the yrs the wire can come in contact with metal and cause a short that drains the battery.
Also same goes for the glove box light.
Check that the Dome light is not staying on.
Anything is posable!
Orich
Over the yrs the wire can come in contact with metal and cause a short that drains the battery.
Also same goes for the glove box light.
Check that the Dome light is not staying on.
Anything is posable!
Orich
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Thank you Gentlemen! I'll be taking a look at all of these things over the next few days and post up what I find......or don't find!
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
"Dead in two days" is a pretty healthy draw, seems like it should light up a test light.
Try the ammeter setting on your VOM? Modern cars and trucks have an acceptable parasitic load of 50 milliamps or 0.05 amperes, but old school iron should basically be 0.00 ... because they don't have all the clocks and gee-gaws & heated massage seats and wi-fi and the rest of it.
Charge the battery up thoroughly with an external charger. This will take a long time if it's dead. Don't try to do this with the vehicle alternator.
Now, it may just be alternator not be charging? Once battery is re-charged, re-install it. Run up the idle to around 2000 or so with the headlights on and heater fan on HI, radio playing etc, the idea is to really load up the alternator to get a true test. Measure voltage right at the battery posts. Should be north of 13.8 volts, somewhere around 14.5 maybe. More if it's super cold temperatures.
Try the ammeter setting on your VOM? Modern cars and trucks have an acceptable parasitic load of 50 milliamps or 0.05 amperes, but old school iron should basically be 0.00 ... because they don't have all the clocks and gee-gaws & heated massage seats and wi-fi and the rest of it.
Charge the battery up thoroughly with an external charger. This will take a long time if it's dead. Don't try to do this with the vehicle alternator.
Now, it may just be alternator not be charging? Once battery is re-charged, re-install it. Run up the idle to around 2000 or so with the headlights on and heater fan on HI, radio playing etc, the idea is to really load up the alternator to get a true test. Measure voltage right at the battery posts. Should be north of 13.8 volts, somewhere around 14.5 maybe. More if it's super cold temperatures.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
After it's charged, leave it disconnected from the truck for two days (if you don't need to drive it that is) and see if the battery is dead again.
Or if you have to drive it, just disconnect the battery at night to see if it lives.
A battery can fail internally and go deal all on it's own without any outside influences. Just a bad battery, and though it usually happens to older batteries, it can happen when new or old.
Especially when that battery has been drained a time or three before, and then perhaps sits for awhile. Sounds like yours falls into that potential category.
If the battery stays fully charged after sitting disconnected, the battery is OK and there is a drain somewhere in spite of you not seeing it initially with that test.
In this case, for out vintage of vehicle it's "usually" the alternator and/or regulator. The alternator has diode arrays inside that can fail and since it's hard wired directly to the battery the diodes let a certain amount of power go to ground. Kind of a "partial short-circuit" I suppose you could call it.
You will usually be able to feel the alternator body as quite warm, or the charge wire warm as well.
Even though both regulator and alternator were replaced, there's no comparison between today's parts and the ones we could get twenty years ago. You can still get good ones that last a lifetime practically, but it's way more common to get parts that wear out or fail in a much shorter time. Anywhere from 1 day to three years maybe, but when things used to last for decades while the body turned to dust (rust) it's a factor in our hunt for gremlins.
But at least you can do the test with disconnecting the cable to see what happens.
Good luck!
Paul
Or if you have to drive it, just disconnect the battery at night to see if it lives.
A battery can fail internally and go deal all on it's own without any outside influences. Just a bad battery, and though it usually happens to older batteries, it can happen when new or old.
Especially when that battery has been drained a time or three before, and then perhaps sits for awhile. Sounds like yours falls into that potential category.
If the battery stays fully charged after sitting disconnected, the battery is OK and there is a drain somewhere in spite of you not seeing it initially with that test.
In this case, for out vintage of vehicle it's "usually" the alternator and/or regulator. The alternator has diode arrays inside that can fail and since it's hard wired directly to the battery the diodes let a certain amount of power go to ground. Kind of a "partial short-circuit" I suppose you could call it.
You will usually be able to feel the alternator body as quite warm, or the charge wire warm as well.
Even though both regulator and alternator were replaced, there's no comparison between today's parts and the ones we could get twenty years ago. You can still get good ones that last a lifetime practically, but it's way more common to get parts that wear out or fail in a much shorter time. Anywhere from 1 day to three years maybe, but when things used to last for decades while the body turned to dust (rust) it's a factor in our hunt for gremlins.
But at least you can do the test with disconnecting the cable to see what happens.
Good luck!
Paul
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,601
Likes: 1,174
From: San Jose, CA
You mentioned in your reply to Tedster that it had not been started in a week or so. Was the battery on the charger for all this time, or did it sit while not connected to the vehicle? Or was it connected?
Just curious how it sat for a week almost and did not drain.
Paul
Just curious how it sat for a week almost and did not drain.
Paul
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
You mentioned in your reply to Tedster that it had not been started in a week or so. Was the battery on the charger for all this time, or did it sit while not connected to the vehicle? Or was it connected?
Just curious how it sat for a week almost and did not drain.
Paul
Just curious how it sat for a week almost and did not drain.
Paul
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
If it's not a dead cell in the battery, I'm guessing that it will come down to the regulator, or the alternator. Do you have the 3G alternator set-up? If not, and the alt. turns out to be the problem, do the 3G swap. IF all three of those items are good, then check out the ignition switch. Let us know what you find.
I'm just now going back through and reading everyone's posts from the other day. I replaced the Alternator last year but I don't remember whether it's the 3G or not. To be honest I vaguely remember reading about that, but don't know anything else about it. I also did the Regulator as well at that time. (That was back when I was trying to figure out why it would just lay down in the middle of anywhere...LOL) It turned out the Regulator was bad and the guy I bought it from did not have it wired correctly. There is no plug on my F.A.S.T wiring so I had to figure that our when I did the alternator. It's ok now though; I think. :-)
So what's the scoop with the Ignition Switch?