Engine Rebuild Part 2
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
I've been shopping around for a good all-around dd cam, that lopes a bit at idle, but allows for towing/hauling, and has good street manners, as well as fits into the dynamic compression equation I'm looking for.
I called Schneider cams about this one: 131H Ford 240-300 Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft
the guy said it does lope at idle, but he sounded as though he didn't really remember it, so I was wondering what the forum members thought of it.
I called Schneider cams about this one: 131H Ford 240-300 Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft
the guy said it does lope at idle, but he sounded as though he didn't really remember it, so I was wondering what the forum members thought of it.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I was wondering about something concerning your cam. I know comp calls it a 260* duration cam, and that is the number you're using when calculating the DCR, but their 260 actually has more duration than the Howard's cam I was looking at, and Howard's calls theirs a 263*. So, with that in mind, how can your equation to find DCR be accurate? Maybe you'd be better off use the a 264 duration # to calculate the DCR?
Maybe that was why discrepency between your final number of degrees and that from comp?
Maybe that was why discrepency between your final number of degrees and that from comp?
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Alright, new topic.
Lifters.
So, I was doing some reading, and I've read several cases where people are saying that Ford 429 roller lifters will fit into a Ford 300 block just fine. There's a little grinding you have to do on the far lifter (#12 for the #6 cylinder) but nothing major. Then, you get a custom ground cam, shorter push rods and you're good to go.
I've had a negative experience with flattened lobes before, and flat tappet cams are also rather outdated. Even if I don't notice a performance gain (which I probably would), just the added durability/lifespan seems like it'd be worth looking into.
The lifters can be had used, but are around $50 a set (for two). Quite a bit more, but it seems that they can be used and reused due to not mating with the cam. I also wrote Comp and asked what a custom ground roller lifter cam would cost.
I may be chasing an idea bigger than I want to tackle, but it seems worth looking into.
Lifters.
So, I was doing some reading, and I've read several cases where people are saying that Ford 429 roller lifters will fit into a Ford 300 block just fine. There's a little grinding you have to do on the far lifter (#12 for the #6 cylinder) but nothing major. Then, you get a custom ground cam, shorter push rods and you're good to go.
I've had a negative experience with flattened lobes before, and flat tappet cams are also rather outdated. Even if I don't notice a performance gain (which I probably would), just the added durability/lifespan seems like it'd be worth looking into.
The lifters can be had used, but are around $50 a set (for two). Quite a bit more, but it seems that they can be used and reused due to not mating with the cam. I also wrote Comp and asked what a custom ground roller lifter cam would cost.
I may be chasing an idea bigger than I want to tackle, but it seems worth looking into.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
Alright, new topic.
Lifters.
So, I was doing some reading, and I've read several cases where people are saying that Ford 429 roller lifters will fit into a Ford 300 block just fine. There's a little grinding you have to do on the far lifter (#12 for the #6 cylinder) but nothing major. Then, you get a custom ground cam, shorter push rods and you're good to go.
I've had a negative experience with flattened lobes before, and flat tappet cams are also rather outdated. Even if I don't notice a performance gain (which I probably would), just the added durability/lifespan seems like it'd be worth looking into.
The lifters can be had used, but are around $50 a set (for two). Quite a bit more, but it seems that they can be used and reused due to not mating with the cam. I also wrote Comp and asked what a custom ground roller lifter cam would cost.
I may be chasing an idea bigger than I want to tackle, but it seems worth looking into.
Lifters.
So, I was doing some reading, and I've read several cases where people are saying that Ford 429 roller lifters will fit into a Ford 300 block just fine. There's a little grinding you have to do on the far lifter (#12 for the #6 cylinder) but nothing major. Then, you get a custom ground cam, shorter push rods and you're good to go.
I've had a negative experience with flattened lobes before, and flat tappet cams are also rather outdated. Even if I don't notice a performance gain (which I probably would), just the added durability/lifespan seems like it'd be worth looking into.
The lifters can be had used, but are around $50 a set (for two). Quite a bit more, but it seems that they can be used and reused due to not mating with the cam. I also wrote Comp and asked what a custom ground roller lifter cam would cost.
I may be chasing an idea bigger than I want to tackle, but it seems worth looking into.
I looked into this many years ago and it was going to end up costing $800-$1000 for the cam and lifters.
I would love to run a roller cam set up. But I just can't justify spending that much. Let me know what you find out. If it's much cheaper then that now I'd run a roller set up.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I've been shopping around for a good all-around dd cam, that lopes a bit at idle, but allows for towing/hauling, and has good street manners, as well as fits into the dynamic compression equation I'm looking for.
I called Schneider cams about this one: 131H Ford 240-300 Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft
the guy said it does lope at idle, but he sounded as though he didn't really remember it, so I was wondering what the forum members thought of it.
I called Schneider cams about this one: 131H Ford 240-300 Hydraulic Lifter Camshaft
the guy said it does lope at idle, but he sounded as though he didn't really remember it, so I was wondering what the forum members thought of it.
Thread Starter
|
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I looked into this many years ago and it was going to end up costing $800-$1000 for the cam and lifters. I would love to run a roller cam set up. But I just can't justify spending that much. Let me know what you find out. If it's much cheaper then that now I'd run a roller set up.
I would love to run a roller cam set up. But I just can't justify spending that much. Let me know what you find out. If it's much cheaper then that now I'd run a roller set up.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
I think the biggest problem you'll have getting a roller cam is finding someone with a steel cam blank. I know Greg and some of the others who drag race a 300 have talked about solid roller cams so the blanks exist, but who has them now and how much?
I talked to Comp about a custom grind and am waiting on them to send me a spec sheet to approve. Basically they can take any existing lobe profile and grind it onto a blank at the ICL and LSA you want.
I talked to Comp about a custom grind and am waiting on them to send me a spec sheet to approve. Basically they can take any existing lobe profile and grind it onto a blank at the ICL and LSA you want.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
I think the biggest problem you'll have getting a roller cam is finding someone with a steel cam blank. I know Greg and some of the others who drag race a 300 have talked about solid roller cams so the blanks exist, but who has them now and how much?
I talked to Comp about a custom grind and am waiting on them to send me a spec sheet to approve. Basically they can take any existing lobe profile and grind it onto a blank at the ICL and LSA you want.
I talked to Comp about a custom grind and am waiting on them to send me a spec sheet to approve. Basically they can take any existing lobe profile and grind it onto a blank at the ICL and LSA you want.
Originally Posted by Comp Cams
That kind of cam would require the use of a different cam core for a roller setup, and being that none have been made for that engine, we do not have any roller cam cores to custom grind one out of unfortunately.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Hello, AB. I read about your search for a good piston on the other forum. One of the members mentioned using a longer 240 rod with a chevy 350 piston, longer rod, shorter piston. And being a C..., the pistons are cost effective and plentiful!
I found these on ebay: Rebuilt Resized Connecting Rod Ford 240 1969 74 C8AE A | eBay
Good luck.
I found these on ebay: Rebuilt Resized Connecting Rod Ford 240 1969 74 C8AE A | eBay
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
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Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Thanks for the suggestion on the 240 rods. I toyed with that idea for a little bit. It seems like it could be a really cool route to go, especially with taking some side load off the rods.
However, I bit the bullet and ordered a set of 6 reconditioned 65 - 68 rods so I can use the 351 pistons. My machinist found a set of 6 from one of his suppliers for $188 shipped. I'll have them outfitted with ARP bolts while I'm at it.
I think I'm going to go with these (the ones you were posting up on your fordsix thread, K).
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H653CP30 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Call it a day.
However, I bit the bullet and ordered a set of 6 reconditioned 65 - 68 rods so I can use the 351 pistons. My machinist found a set of 6 from one of his suppliers for $188 shipped. I'll have them outfitted with ARP bolts while I'm at it.
I think I'm going to go with these (the ones you were posting up on your fordsix thread, K).
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H653CP30 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Call it a day.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
I'm happy you found a deal on the rods. Yes, I love those pistons. For me, with the 19cc volume dish, they suit the 76cc chambers I'm targeting to achieve 8.97:1 s.c.r. (I'd have to recheck my numbers, but I believe it will mean taking another .010 off my block, to make a total of .030 off the deck).
Good luck. p.s. I believe you meant the same pistons, but sized at .030 over.
Good luck. p.s. I believe you meant the same pistons, but sized at .030 over.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Boise, Idaho
I thought bigger pistons would give me more power!.
Heh, I must've just copied the wrong link. I edited it.
Yeah, I was pleased too on the rods. Previously, the only other set I could find on eBay were a bit more.
As for pistons, the only other ones I'm starting to think about is these:
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons KB303-030 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
They're over 3x as much, but they're a different alloy and heat treated, which makes them significantly stronger. My "build it once / build it right" itch has me thinking.
I've even read a few posts where some argue that untreated hypers aren't even as strong as cast. I don't know what truth there is to that, but it gets one thinking.
Heh, I must've just copied the wrong link. I edited it.
Yeah, I was pleased too on the rods. Previously, the only other set I could find on eBay were a bit more.
As for pistons, the only other ones I'm starting to think about is these:
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons KB303-030 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
They're over 3x as much, but they're a different alloy and heat treated, which makes them significantly stronger. My "build it once / build it right" itch has me thinking.
I've even read a few posts where some argue that untreated hypers aren't even as strong as cast. I don't know what truth there is to that, but it gets one thinking.
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
'More Power!' that's funny.
I understand about wanting high quality. But at some point one has to draw a line. Afterall, the oem 300 will last what, 2-300k miles? How much better can we make it. I have been happy with the set of hypers I have, so I'll go with the speedPro ones and release my need for perfection. For a while I was tossing around the forged equivalent of the Speedpro hypers we mentioned earlier. They cost only (only, ha ha) $360 or $380, but have only a 13cc dish, which puts me too high with s.c.r.
I remember FTF mentioned that hypers can be stronger than forged pistons at running temps. Maybe you can ask him about it.
I understand about wanting high quality. But at some point one has to draw a line. Afterall, the oem 300 will last what, 2-300k miles? How much better can we make it. I have been happy with the set of hypers I have, so I'll go with the speedPro ones and release my need for perfection. For a while I was tossing around the forged equivalent of the Speedpro hypers we mentioned earlier. They cost only (only, ha ha) $360 or $380, but have only a 13cc dish, which puts me too high with s.c.r.
I remember FTF mentioned that hypers can be stronger than forged pistons at running temps. Maybe you can ask him about it.
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Yeah, I agree on drawing the line. I've had to do that a few times. For a time, I was looking into aftermarket connecting rods so I was sure those were nice and strong. 
If I had the money, I'd love to just go ALL out and make everything forged.
Yeah, I remember reading about the hyper pistons being stronger than forged, but I believe that was in relation to the expensive heat treated alloy ones.
You're right though, they already run forever.
If I had the money, I'd love to just go ALL out and make everything forged.Yeah, I remember reading about the hyper pistons being stronger than forged, but I believe that was in relation to the expensive heat treated alloy ones.
You're right though, they already run forever.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H621P30 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
Tall compression height so less machining on the block. Low friction rings. Boom.
Tall compression height so less machining on the block. Low friction rings. Boom.