Engine Rebuild Part 2
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,643
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except I do not like the quality of the Walker Y pipe. Find a better alternative.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 9
From: Mims, FL
Any suggestions for an off the shelf solution?
I was basically trying to keep costs down and the Walker Y can tie into my existing muffler/tailpipe that is still in good shape.
Sorry, Didn't mean to hi jack, but maybe this is relevant info for this thread.
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Alright,
Got some information from the builder this morning. He measured the engine and got some real numbers. These are with Silvolite 3118H Pistons.
He's having issues finding anything much more than stock replacement. I know there are a few others that have been discussed around here. Thoughts on pistons?
These are his calculations:
Machine 0.021" off the Deck: 8.4 to 1 compression
Machine Head to 70cc chambers (with 0.021" off deck): 8.7 to 1 compression
Zero deck block with 70cc head chambers: 8.8 to 1 compression
Base Engine Input:
Bore - 4.030"
Stroke - 3.980"
Rod Length - 6.208"
Deck Height - 10.000"
Chamber/Piston Inputs
Chamber CCs in Head - 74.4
Piston Design - Dish Top
Piston Dish CCs - 25
Gasket Thickness - 0.048"
Gasket Bore Dia. - 4.17"
Deck Height Clearance - 0.026"
Piston Ring Depth - 0.266"
Piston Top O.D. - 3.985"
Compression Height - 1.778"
Got some information from the builder this morning. He measured the engine and got some real numbers. These are with Silvolite 3118H Pistons.
He's having issues finding anything much more than stock replacement. I know there are a few others that have been discussed around here. Thoughts on pistons?
These are his calculations:
Machine 0.021" off the Deck: 8.4 to 1 compression
Machine Head to 70cc chambers (with 0.021" off deck): 8.7 to 1 compression
Zero deck block with 70cc head chambers: 8.8 to 1 compression
Base Engine Input:
Bore - 4.030"
Stroke - 3.980"
Rod Length - 6.208"
Deck Height - 10.000"
Chamber/Piston Inputs
Chamber CCs in Head - 74.4
Piston Design - Dish Top
Piston Dish CCs - 25
Gasket Thickness - 0.048"
Gasket Bore Dia. - 4.17"
Deck Height Clearance - 0.026"
Piston Ring Depth - 0.266"
Piston Top O.D. - 3.985"
Compression Height - 1.778"
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
So, looking around, I found that Mr. Gasket sells a high performance head gasket that has a thickness of 0.038" instead of the stock 0.048".
As little as that seems, it would bring the compression up from 8.77 to 8.94.
As little as that seems, it would bring the compression up from 8.77 to 8.94.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
I used these pistons: Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons WH674P - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing the compression height is slightly different but nothing that can't be milled away. They also use shallow rings so a bit less friction. I measured one and the dish is 25cc.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Works for me. I've always had good luck with Fel-Pro.
I think 8.92 would be enough compression for me, and I could get it with stock pistons.
That would change things to:
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 70
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0
Piston Dish - 25
Piston O.D. - 1.24
105.01 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
So: (831.925 + 105.01) / 105.01 = 8.922
About a 0.9 bump from stock.
I think 8.92 would be enough compression for me, and I could get it with stock pistons.
That would change things to:
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 70
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0
Piston Dish - 25
Piston O.D. - 1.24
105.01 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
So: (831.925 + 105.01) / 105.01 = 8.922
About a 0.9 bump from stock.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 458
Likes: 1
I put this link on FordSix, but it should be here too. My auto machinist of many decades has been telling me that the new parts he gets anymore are often cr@p.
The late Joe Mondello was one of the best and busiest builders of racing and hot rod engines.
mondello.com - Machine it, Blueprint it, Professionally build it
The late Joe Mondello was one of the best and busiest builders of racing and hot rod engines.
mondello.com - Machine it, Blueprint it, Professionally build it
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
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From: Boise, Idaho
Thanks for the link seattle. I think that's a good point on machine trueness. I think we just automatically assume that all of their equipment is all within spec. If we're giving them $1000s, we should have every right to ask.
So, here's a thought:
How difficult (or expensive) is it to bush pistons? 351w pistons have a wrist pin of 0.912" whereas mine are 0.975". If I were to bush it down to 0.912", I'd have a whole range of options opened up.
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons SKB379-030
Those right there would bring me to ~9.2:1 compression with only having to true up the head/block, which would prevent me from shaving off too much material.
Thoughts on this?
So, here's a thought:
How difficult (or expensive) is it to bush pistons? 351w pistons have a wrist pin of 0.912" whereas mine are 0.975". If I were to bush it down to 0.912", I'd have a whole range of options opened up.
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons SKB379-030
Those right there would bring me to ~9.2:1 compression with only having to true up the head/block, which would prevent me from shaving off too much material.
Thoughts on this?
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 277
Likes: 2
From: Fresno, California
Originally Posted by AbandonedBronco
Thanks for the link seattle. I think that's a good point on machine trueness. I think we just automatically assume that all of their equipment is all within spec. If we're giving them $1000s, we should have every right to ask.
So, here's a thought:
How difficult (or expensive) is it to bush pistons? 351w pistons have a wrist pin of 0.912" whereas mine are 0.975". If I were to bush it down to 0.912", I'd have a whole range of options opened up.
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons SKB379-030
Those right there would bring me to ~9.2:1 compression with only having to true up the head/block, which would prevent me from shaving off too much material.
Thoughts on this?
So, here's a thought:
How difficult (or expensive) is it to bush pistons? 351w pistons have a wrist pin of 0.912" whereas mine are 0.975". If I were to bush it down to 0.912", I'd have a whole range of options opened up.
Keith Black KB Performance Pistons SKB379-030
Those right there would bring me to ~9.2:1 compression with only having to true up the head/block, which would prevent me from shaving off too much material.
Thoughts on this?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
Bushing pistons is pretty easy, and would indeed open up a lot more options.
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H653CP30 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
These are a little shorter and have a slightly larger dish so you would have to machine the block more but they're lighter. Looks like they would give pretty good squish with a 300 head too.
Speed-Pro Hypereutectic Pistons H653CP30 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing
These are a little shorter and have a slightly larger dish so you would have to machine the block more but they're lighter. Looks like they would give pretty good squish with a 300 head too.
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Those look like they'd be about perfect. I plugged them into the numbers.
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 72
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0.023
Piston Dish - 19
Piston O.D. - 1.24
That's with the 0.039" gasket. Shaving the head to 72ccs, and decking the block down to 9.97", which leaves about 0.009" above the piston (with the 1.765" piston height).
101.033 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
(831.925 + 101.033) / 101.033 = 9.234
I would think 9.2 would be about as high as I would want to go, since it would still be regular pump gas and not too excessive, but would definitely be a noticeable kick in power.
Thoughts?
I'll ask the guy about bushing the pistons. However, in this case, wouldn't he need to bush the rods, not the pistons?
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 72
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0.023
Piston Dish - 19
Piston O.D. - 1.24
That's with the 0.039" gasket. Shaving the head to 72ccs, and decking the block down to 9.97", which leaves about 0.009" above the piston (with the 1.765" piston height).
101.033 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
(831.925 + 101.033) / 101.033 = 9.234
I would think 9.2 would be about as high as I would want to go, since it would still be regular pump gas and not too excessive, but would definitely be a noticeable kick in power.
Thoughts?
I'll ask the guy about bushing the pistons. However, in this case, wouldn't he need to bush the rods, not the pistons?
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 709
Likes: 2
why don't you ask him to
Those look like they'd be about perfect. I plugged them into the numbers.
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 72
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0.023
Piston Dish - 19
Piston O.D. - 1.24
That's with the 0.039" gasket. Shaving the head to 72ccs, and decking the block down to 9.97", which leaves about 0.009" above the piston (with the 1.765" piston height).
101.033 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
(831.925 + 101.033) / 101.033 = 9.234
I would think 9.2 would be about as high as I would want to go, since it would still be regular pump gas and not too excessive, but would definitely be a noticeable kick in power.
Thoughts?
I'll ask the guy about bushing the pistons. However, in this case, wouldn't he need to bush the rods, not the pistons?
Volume Contribution (CCs)
Head Chamber - 72
Gasket - 8.77
Deck - 0.023
Piston Dish - 19
Piston O.D. - 1.24
That's with the 0.039" gasket. Shaving the head to 72ccs, and decking the block down to 9.97", which leaves about 0.009" above the piston (with the 1.765" piston height).
101.033 CCs of head volume.
831.925 CCs for the cylinder.
(831.925 + 101.033) / 101.033 = 9.234
I would think 9.2 would be about as high as I would want to go, since it would still be regular pump gas and not too excessive, but would definitely be a noticeable kick in power.
Thoughts?
I'll ask the guy about bushing the pistons. However, in this case, wouldn't he need to bush the rods, not the pistons?
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23097
that'l wake him up..
Thread Starter
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Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Putting this here for later reading, as well as for others. Good stuff.
Engine Building Mistakes - Mustang & Fords Magazine
Engine Building Mistakes - Mustang & Fords Magazine
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 69
Sealed Power Pin Bushings 2304V - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing