Cummins swap/frame question
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
The stuff isn't going anywhere soon. Has a clutch disk and pressure plate with it, but no release arm - got married to a ZF's arm to get the right leverage with a mechanical linkage, and now both arms need to be replaced as I'm going hydraulic. 
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Noted. I think I read that the M bellhousing doesn't fit as large diameter clutch as a 460 bellhousing, even though they use the same bolt pattern. Have to research it a bit more.....
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Cummins and Ford diesel both came with 13" clutch....... So that's the "easiest" size to go with......
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
After further research, it turns out that 460 pattern adapters require using the cummins starter, so bellhousing must be ground, leaving a hole in the side of it.
Diesel ZF adapters can be bought to use a 6.0L ford diesel starter, no grinding needed.
Granted, a NV4500 would solve all these issues.....
Diesel ZF adapters can be bought to use a 6.0L ford diesel starter, no grinding needed.
Granted, a NV4500 would solve all these issues.....
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
There is an option to use the cummins starter, but it requires grinding out a spot in the bellhousing.
I will have to research the ratios a bit more, but in the end, it will likely come down to whatever I can get at the time.
The starter choice has to be made prior to ordering the adapter. If I go with a trans that requires an adapter, I'll likely go with the 6.0 starter version, and make a heat shield above it. Less chance of liquid/dirt getting into the bellhousing.....
Yeah, I don't drive like that anyways. I have actually used a 2.3L M5OD & 3.45 rear axle ratio truck (B2300) to tow-dolly a car over 50 miles. Not something I would want to do on a regular basis, but wouldn't hesitate to do it again if the need arose. I only had to downshift for 1 hill, and that particular hill the truck won't pull in 4th, empty. I just capped speed at 55, and completely ignored the existance of 5th/OD.
I will have to research the ratios a bit more, but in the end, it will likely come down to whatever I can get at the time.
The starter choice has to be made prior to ordering the adapter. If I go with a trans that requires an adapter, I'll likely go with the 6.0 starter version, and make a heat shield above it. Less chance of liquid/dirt getting into the bellhousing.....
Yeah, I don't drive like that anyways. I have actually used a 2.3L M5OD & 3.45 rear axle ratio truck (B2300) to tow-dolly a car over 50 miles. Not something I would want to do on a regular basis, but wouldn't hesitate to do it again if the need arose. I only had to downshift for 1 hill, and that particular hill the truck won't pull in 4th, empty. I just capped speed at 55, and completely ignored the existance of 5th/OD.
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Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
After further research, it turns out that 460 pattern adapters require using the cummins starter, so bellhousing must be ground, leaving a hole in the side of it.
Diesel ZF adapters can be bought to use a 6.0L ford diesel starter, no grinding needed.
Granted, a NV4500 would solve all these issues.....
Diesel ZF adapters can be bought to use a 6.0L ford diesel starter, no grinding needed.
Granted, a NV4500 would solve all these issues.....
http://www.destroked.com/prod_adapters.php
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
These:
DCS CUMMINS ADAPTER - 1418 | Diesel Conversion Specialists
DCS CUMMINS ADAPTER - 1272 | Diesel Conversion Specialists
The 460 adapter plates use the cummins starter.
DCS CUMMINS ADAPTER - 1418 | Diesel Conversion Specialists
DCS CUMMINS ADAPTER - 1272 | Diesel Conversion Specialists
The 460 adapter plates use the cummins starter.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Whose plates do that? Destroked still uses the 6.0 starter. They do state that there is a little grinding necessary on the bell housing, but not as much as "others".
Destroked - THE Cummins Conversion Company : Adapter Plates
Destroked - THE Cummins Conversion Company : Adapter Plates
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
Destroked appears that way, but they do also cater to the older stuff. They used to be a little more self service friendly, but now you have to contact and inquire about older rigs. They sell the complete install kits, as well as advise what all you need to complete the swap.
I see Ford-Cummins changed their name to DCS. They got their start at Autoworld of Montana, who does full Cummins installs in whatever truck customers bring in. There is a long story with a bit of drama there, but in basic, they parted ways on not so nice terms. Anyway, Destroked came on the scene a little later, and is the plate of choice by many installers. To put the Cummins starter on that side, it will be upside down. That also is why you have to take so much out of the bell housing. The Cummins starter mounts properly on the driver side.
I see Ford-Cummins changed their name to DCS. They got their start at Autoworld of Montana, who does full Cummins installs in whatever truck customers bring in. There is a long story with a bit of drama there, but in basic, they parted ways on not so nice terms. Anyway, Destroked came on the scene a little later, and is the plate of choice by many installers. To put the Cummins starter on that side, it will be upside down. That also is why you have to take so much out of the bell housing. The Cummins starter mounts properly on the driver side.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
From what I gather, the DCS plates which use the cummins starter, retains the original location of the cummins starter. Maybe I'm wrong.....
I don't know who the boss bought his adapter from, but has used the original 6.0 starter, since that was what he took out. His truck is an 05, if I remember correctly.
I don't know who the boss bought his adapter from, but has used the original 6.0 starter, since that was what he took out. His truck is an 05, if I remember correctly.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
Likes: 3
From: Marengo, Iowa
Looking at their plates (460 auto only, no options for 5 speed) the starter remains on the passenger side. The area that mounts to the engine tells the story. The block is recessed into the plate.
When looking at the adapter plates, the year of the body it is going in to doesn't matter, the only time that matters is the motor mounts.
When looking at the adapter plates, the year of the body it is going in to doesn't matter, the only time that matters is the motor mounts.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Still hoping to avoid needing an adapter, but keeping options open. Never hurts to shop around.....
Boss said he got his thru ford-cummins, and they were a pain to deal with. Not sure if ~$200 is worth dealing with extra hassle.
Did you buy ready made mounts, or build your own? If bought, from whom? I don't suppose you have any pics.
Boss said he got his thru ford-cummins, and they were a pain to deal with. Not sure if ~$200 is worth dealing with extra hassle.
Did you buy ready made mounts, or build your own? If bought, from whom? I don't suppose you have any pics.