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Cummins swap/frame question
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
The boss remembered today that he had a 2wd diesel ZF5, just can't remember what he did with it.........
I'm really torn. Do I want to try finding a NV4500, and hope the 5th gear issue doesn't happen, or do I look for a ZF5 and buy the ~$700 rear engine cover to bolt the ZF5 up? They make these for either a 460 or diesel ZF, with 2 different starter options. You can use the original cummins starter, but have to grind the bellhousing to make room for the drive, or use a 6.0 starter with no mods needed. If I go with a ZF, I'd most likely go with the 6.0 starter option.
There would certainly be advantages to using a ZF, as the driveshaft yoke and crossmember could be reused, making it that much easier to complete the swap in less time.
I'm really torn. Do I want to try finding a NV4500, and hope the 5th gear issue doesn't happen, or do I look for a ZF5 and buy the ~$700 rear engine cover to bolt the ZF5 up? They make these for either a 460 or diesel ZF, with 2 different starter options. You can use the original cummins starter, but have to grind the bellhousing to make room for the drive, or use a 6.0 starter with no mods needed. If I go with a ZF, I'd most likely go with the 6.0 starter option.
There would certainly be advantages to using a ZF, as the driveshaft yoke and crossmember could be reused, making it that much easier to complete the swap in less time.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
That would make it a no-brainer. I hope he remembers where he put it, and didn't get rid of it......
No matter what trans I end up with, I will have to buy a flywheel and clutch, since the engine was originally mated to an autotragic.......
No matter what trans I end up with, I will have to buy a flywheel and clutch, since the engine was originally mated to an autotragic.......
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Still considering my trans options. The ZF has several things going for it, including being much cheaper to buy and adapt to the truck. Adapting to the engine is certainly a bit more, but the adapter and ZF are less than the average asking price for a NV4500, with it's all-too-common "5th gear" issue.......
Honestly, the ZF "S47" is a better trans, in my opinion, than the NV4500 for the given application.
Still looking, and doing a lot plotting/planning. Hopefully, the transformation can begin in a couple months.
I'll add to this as things progress, and hope to have plenty of pics to share.
Honestly, the ZF "S47" is a better trans, in my opinion, than the NV4500 for the given application.
Still looking, and doing a lot plotting/planning. Hopefully, the transformation can begin in a couple months.
I'll add to this as things progress, and hope to have plenty of pics to share.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
What's the torque rating on the Cummins? The S42 ZF is rated for 420 lb-ft and the S47 is rated, oddly enough, at 470. Why do I know? Because I'm thinking of the potential problems with my 400 probably good for 500 lb-ft.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
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From: Virginia
Don't worry too much. The powerstroke guys have been turning up their trucks with the zf behind them and it's been holding up surprisingly well.
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Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Marengo, Iowa
The 5th gear nut is an easy fix... They have kits for it, but I had that come off. A common thing is to do a little tack weld on the end, it won't come off then... They are harder to come by, and aftermarket support is coming, but the main manufacturer went out of business.
Main complaint I have using a ZF is it puts the starter right under the exhaust... If it could be figured out how to use the driver side for starter mounting, I wouldn't be as resistant to the plates. The 460 ZF I hear actually works better with the Cummins power band than the diesel units do.
Main complaint I have using a ZF is it puts the starter right under the exhaust... If it could be figured out how to use the driver side for starter mounting, I wouldn't be as resistant to the plates. The 460 ZF I hear actually works better with the Cummins power band than the diesel units do.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
As long as you don't hook up to a heavy trailer and side-step the clutch I doubt you are going to hurt the tranny. The rear tires aren't going to stay hooked up even with LS without a lot of weight, so just just treat it nicely when loaded.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
The 5th gear nut is an easy fix... They have kits for it, but I had that come off. A common thing is to do a little tack weld on the end, it won't come off then... They are harder to come by, and aftermarket support is coming, but the main manufacturer went out of business.
Main complaint I have using a ZF is it puts the starter right under the exhaust... If it could be figured out how to use the driver side for starter mounting, I wouldn't be as resistant to the plates. The 460 ZF I hear actually works better with the Cummins power band than the diesel units do.
Main complaint I have using a ZF is it puts the starter right under the exhaust... If it could be figured out how to use the driver side for starter mounting, I wouldn't be as resistant to the plates. The 460 ZF I hear actually works better with the Cummins power band than the diesel units do.
I will have to research the ratios a bit more, but in the end, it will likely come down to whatever I can get at the time.
The starter choice has to be made prior to ordering the adapter. If I go with a trans that requires an adapter, I'll likely go with the 6.0 starter version, and make a heat shield above it. Less chance of liquid/dirt getting into the bellhousing.....
Yeah, I don't drive like that anyways. I have actually used a 2.3L M5OD & 3.45 rear axle ratio truck (B2300) to tow-dolly a car over 50 miles. Not something I would want to do on a regular basis, but wouldn't hesitate to do it again if the need arose. I only had to downshift for 1 hill, and that particular hill the truck won't pull in 4th, empty. I just capped speed at 55, and completely ignored the existance of 5th/OD.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Already have tall gears in it.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
It has an M/460 bell housing with it. And there's a BW1356 t-case to go behind it - forgot to say its a 4wd version. Came in Rusty and was in when you drove him. The t-case is the one you helped me get with the ZF.