Bleed ford until hpfp failure
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 20,167
Likes: 15,997
From: Wisconsin
Still going I see. Some people just can't wait for the big issue to be discovered that labels these trucks. People like to talk about 6.0 diesels just so they can make an impression on a total stranger, hoping to come across as wise/knowledgeable/"in the loop" with all the other gurus.
I agree 100% with Tom and 2horses. These fuel pumps are not an issue. The issue is a mistaken diagnosis by a service writer.
My job 1 07/2010 build truck with the original fuel pump has 172,000 miles on it. My stock fuel/water separator has never produced a drop of water in that time. Obviously my fuel doesn't sit very long.....
Carry on, nothing to see here folks.
I agree 100% with Tom and 2horses. These fuel pumps are not an issue. The issue is a mistaken diagnosis by a service writer.
My job 1 07/2010 build truck with the original fuel pump has 172,000 miles on it. My stock fuel/water separator has never produced a drop of water in that time. Obviously my fuel doesn't sit very long.....
Carry on, nothing to see here folks.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Likes: 1
Unlike other people who shall remain unnamed, I like to focus on proposing positive solutions to people's problems.
I'm not here to cry wolf, or try to damage any brand for some perceived wrong.
While some trucks I'm sure will go 172k miles or more without any problems, other obviously have not, including the OP.
Like I said, your mileage may vary. Everybody has different comfort levels, and different levels of "peace of mind"
To each his own.
I'm not here to cry wolf, or try to damage any brand for some perceived wrong.
While some trucks I'm sure will go 172k miles or more without any problems, other obviously have not, including the OP.
Like I said, your mileage may vary. Everybody has different comfort levels, and different levels of "peace of mind"
To each his own.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
What engines have you seen this on for me to add to my personal knowledge base? I deal with Mercedes diesels write a bit, probably average one a week with gas in the tank, only had one on the currant V6 diesel that suffered rod damage, but only a slight bend causing a intermittent misfire, but could've easily been worse. A couple of HPFP have bit the dust along the way from gas consumption.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 4
From: Lakehills, TX
I do wish we could get the to-be-treated-as-gospel verdict on this. I know Ford makes their own, but to my knowledge they've not only never recommended it but not even suggested it. I've got a case of Diesel Kleen I've started adding to each tank, though I'm not sure it makes any difference. I'd rather not waste money on useless snake oil, but but I'd really hate to think I'm actively harming anything or even giving Ford an excuse to deny warranty work.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
From: Panama City, FL area
I have stayed on the side lines for all of the HPFP threads but let me take this into a new line of thought, so bear with me before the bashing starts. The way Ford justifies warrenty denial in every case I have seen on all of the forums is based on the internal inspection of two or three fuel system metalic components, if any one of these components have any discoloration it is automaticlly corrosion caused by water in the fuel and warrenty gets denied.
In all cases I have seen except one, the HPFP failed at relatively lower milage.
I am not a metalologist or engineer but I do know that for corrosion to be visible it takes time, it is not institanious in nature.
To prevent corrosion metals must be treated either chemically or heat process. This occures sometime during the manufacturing process of the parts. Both of these processes will also discolor metals somewhat. We all agree that manufacturing and quality control is not 100% perfect, and all manufacturers plan for a very small percentage of defective parts.
O.K. so here is what I have been leading up to with all of this. What if fuel system parts that are showing "corrosion" are actually defects in the corrosion prevention process? This would account for the very low number of HPFP failures. If I remember the diagram of the fuel system, all of the components that get inspected are on the hi pressure side of the pump, the fuel under high pressure should actually act to keep these parts clean.
Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I do believe that lack of lube or water in the pumps will cause the catastrophic failures we have seen. I just don't believe that the "corrosion" basis for denial is a smoking gun for water in the system.
No, I don't know of any way to prove this or provide facts, this entire post is strickly my oppinion.
In all cases I have seen except one, the HPFP failed at relatively lower milage.
I am not a metalologist or engineer but I do know that for corrosion to be visible it takes time, it is not institanious in nature.
To prevent corrosion metals must be treated either chemically or heat process. This occures sometime during the manufacturing process of the parts. Both of these processes will also discolor metals somewhat. We all agree that manufacturing and quality control is not 100% perfect, and all manufacturers plan for a very small percentage of defective parts.
O.K. so here is what I have been leading up to with all of this. What if fuel system parts that are showing "corrosion" are actually defects in the corrosion prevention process? This would account for the very low number of HPFP failures. If I remember the diagram of the fuel system, all of the components that get inspected are on the hi pressure side of the pump, the fuel under high pressure should actually act to keep these parts clean.
Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I do believe that lack of lube or water in the pumps will cause the catastrophic failures we have seen. I just don't believe that the "corrosion" basis for denial is a smoking gun for water in the system.
No, I don't know of any way to prove this or provide facts, this entire post is strickly my oppinion.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
When I worked for Ford back in the 7.3 days, it was really actively pushed using diesel additives through the service departments and to fleets to run a diesel treatment (Ford's or others like Stanadyne - so it wasn't just to push sales of Ford's own diesel treatment) - but this was before the diesel fuel standards were tightened a lot.
I am pretty sure they would still recommend it, but they probably push it less.
I am pretty sure they would still recommend it, but they probably push it less.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 0
I do wish we could get the to-be-treated-as-gospel verdict on this. I know Ford makes their own, but to my knowledge they've not only never recommended it but not even suggested it. I've got a case of Diesel Kleen I've started adding to each tank, though I'm not sure it makes any difference. I'd rather not waste money on useless snake oil, but but I'd really hate to think I'm actively harming anything or even giving Ford an excuse to deny warranty work.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 0
I have stayed on the side lines for all of the HPFP threads but let me take this into a new line of thought, so bear with me before the bashing starts. The way Ford justifies warrenty denial in every case I have seen on all of the forums is based on the internal inspection of two or three fuel system metalic components, if any one of these components have any discoloration it is automaticlly corrosion caused by water in the fuel and warrenty gets denied.
In all cases I have seen except one, the HPFP failed at relatively lower milage.
I am not a metalologist or engineer but I do know that for corrosion to be visible it takes time, it is not institanious in nature.
To prevent corrosion metals must be treated either chemically or heat process. This occures sometime during the manufacturing process of the parts. Both of these processes will also discolor metals somewhat. We all agree that manufacturing and quality control is not 100% perfect, and all manufacturers plan for a very small percentage of defective parts.
O.K. so here is what I have been leading up to with all of this. What if fuel system parts that are showing "corrosion" are actually defects in the corrosion prevention process? This would account for the very low number of HPFP failures. If I remember the diagram of the fuel system, all of the components that get inspected are on the hi pressure side of the pump, the fuel under high pressure should actually act to keep these parts clean.
Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I do believe that lack of lube or water in the pumps will cause the catastrophic failures we have seen. I just don't believe that the "corrosion" basis for denial is a smoking gun for water in the system.
No, I don't know of any way to prove this or provide facts, this entire post is strickly my oppinion.
In all cases I have seen except one, the HPFP failed at relatively lower milage.
I am not a metalologist or engineer but I do know that for corrosion to be visible it takes time, it is not institanious in nature.
To prevent corrosion metals must be treated either chemically or heat process. This occures sometime during the manufacturing process of the parts. Both of these processes will also discolor metals somewhat. We all agree that manufacturing and quality control is not 100% perfect, and all manufacturers plan for a very small percentage of defective parts.
O.K. so here is what I have been leading up to with all of this. What if fuel system parts that are showing "corrosion" are actually defects in the corrosion prevention process? This would account for the very low number of HPFP failures. If I remember the diagram of the fuel system, all of the components that get inspected are on the hi pressure side of the pump, the fuel under high pressure should actually act to keep these parts clean.
Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I do believe that lack of lube or water in the pumps will cause the catastrophic failures we have seen. I just don't believe that the "corrosion" basis for denial is a smoking gun for water in the system.
No, I don't know of any way to prove this or provide facts, this entire post is strickly my oppinion.
I worry about trucks that sit on the lot for a year with an empty tank and move around.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 1,190
From: Door Cty/Florida
Pam
You may take your bow... but your statement is patently incorrect...unless you paid for some extended warranty on my truck...you would also be incorrect in assuming extended warranty would be involved or had covered the repairs. First, I was well below the supposed 100,000 mile engine limitation and 4 years short of timing out on the 5 years. In fact, I was still within the 3/36,000 bumper to bumper coverage. Why would you think that buying additional warranty coverage should entitle one better coverage than the base warranty? Or why would you think that a claim denied by basic warranty would be covered by extended...the same people administer the Ford warranty approvals or denials.
I find it interesting that you would infer that I have left out information about how my bill was handled. I have never hid the fact that I was fortunate and thankful to keep my out of pocket expenses at $650.00. But, I am amazed that some here think that because the dollar amount was seemingly insignificant due to insurance coverage that everything should be forgotten...and by who's standard does $650.00 become insignificant.
I was fortunate...my Auto Insurance carrier paid for the repairs...this has been effectively stopped at this point because the entire industry except Ford acknowledges the shortcomings of the CP4 pump and warranties all failures. I was just notified today of an Audi, with a CP 4 pump having 2 failures in less than 1000 miles being repaired twice under warranty. The auto insurance carrier's are onto Ford's scam and will limit coverage wherever possible..as they should... it's Ford's problem not theirs...
So, as I said, enjoy your round of applause...bow if you must...but sorry, you were still wrong...
Note to Jefff: You are right about basic Auto coverage but the insurance Pam is actually referencing is an added cost rider available from Geico for "mechanical breakdown". Until my debacle, not many even knew it existed. A GM guy, Huntindog, was the first person to bring mention of this coverage to this forum. What Pam left out is premium cost differential depending on the truck manufacturer. IIRC, the difference between a Ford with a CP4 pump and a GM with a CP4 pump is 400% higher for the Ford...still likely a bargain but it does tell you that the underwriters are onto the Ford scam.
Regards
You may take your bow... but your statement is patently incorrect...unless you paid for some extended warranty on my truck...you would also be incorrect in assuming extended warranty would be involved or had covered the repairs. First, I was well below the supposed 100,000 mile engine limitation and 4 years short of timing out on the 5 years. In fact, I was still within the 3/36,000 bumper to bumper coverage. Why would you think that buying additional warranty coverage should entitle one better coverage than the base warranty? Or why would you think that a claim denied by basic warranty would be covered by extended...the same people administer the Ford warranty approvals or denials.
I find it interesting that you would infer that I have left out information about how my bill was handled. I have never hid the fact that I was fortunate and thankful to keep my out of pocket expenses at $650.00. But, I am amazed that some here think that because the dollar amount was seemingly insignificant due to insurance coverage that everything should be forgotten...and by who's standard does $650.00 become insignificant.
I was fortunate...my Auto Insurance carrier paid for the repairs...this has been effectively stopped at this point because the entire industry except Ford acknowledges the shortcomings of the CP4 pump and warranties all failures. I was just notified today of an Audi, with a CP 4 pump having 2 failures in less than 1000 miles being repaired twice under warranty. The auto insurance carrier's are onto Ford's scam and will limit coverage wherever possible..as they should... it's Ford's problem not theirs...
So, as I said, enjoy your round of applause...bow if you must...but sorry, you were still wrong...
Note to Jefff: You are right about basic Auto coverage but the insurance Pam is actually referencing is an added cost rider available from Geico for "mechanical breakdown". Until my debacle, not many even knew it existed. A GM guy, Huntindog, was the first person to bring mention of this coverage to this forum. What Pam left out is premium cost differential depending on the truck manufacturer. IIRC, the difference between a Ford with a CP4 pump and a GM with a CP4 pump is 400% higher for the Ford...still likely a bargain but it does tell you that the underwriters are onto the Ford scam.
Regards
bruce...
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,187
Likes: 8,069
From: Texas
! So, with all that, I am now driving a 2016 KR DRW. And this one is different from the start. The '15 never was quite right.......there was a "bug" that no one could pinpoint from the second day I had it! I ended up hauling it back to the selling dealer, and they were the ones that did the final diagnosis, and they did make a decent trade for me, so, with all that.....the '15 is history and I dont know if the 2015+ fuel system has been released or not. If not, the truck is still setting on the dealers repair lot and that has been 2 months ago, if it has been repaired, it is either on the dealers lot or somebody else has it and I wish them the best!Now I could have went next door and traded a broke down Ford for a Dodge........just imagine the beating I would have taken there! And they only had one that fit my needs! DRW, HO engine, Aisin transmission and that one sold shotrly after I looked at it! But then, Dodge/Cummins,are not without issues either!
With all this being said, I Still trust my Ford, and trust that Ford will do the right thing if they have the right information! I got burned bad by GM with a new at the time '83 GMC with the 6.2 l diesel, and I had a late model mopar and their elecrical issues so I dont need to go there either!
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 1,190
From: Door Cty/Florida
Yup!, but I am reading this because I did have an HPFP failure on my 2015. I wont go into a lot of details on an open forum, but after about 40 fuel samples, Ford said oops! We gotta warranty this one! BUT, for the 2015 and 2016, there aren't any systems available, the parts are on national back order and we dont,know when they will be available!! So, with all that, I am now driving a 2016 KR DRW. And this one is different from the start. The '15 never was quite right.......there was a "bug" that no one could pinpoint from the second day I had it! I ended up hauling it back to the selling dealer, and they were the ones that did the final diagnosis, and they did make a decent trade for me, so, with all that.....the '15 is history and I dont know if the 2015+ fuel system has been released or not. If not, the truck is still setting on the dealers repair lot and that has been 2 months ago, if it has been repaired, it is either on the dealers lot or somebody else has it and I wish them the best!
Now I could have went next door and traded a broke down Ford for a Dodge........just imagine the beating I would have taken there! And they only had one that fit my needs! DRW, HO engine, Aisin transmission and that one sold shotrly after I looked at it! But then, Dodge/Cummins,are not without issues either!
With all this being said, I Still trust my Ford, and trust that Ford will do the right thing if they have the right information! I got burned bad by GM with a new at the time '83 GMC with the 6.2 l diesel, and I had a late model mopar and their elecrical issues so I dont need to go there either!
! So, with all that, I am now driving a 2016 KR DRW. And this one is different from the start. The '15 never was quite right.......there was a "bug" that no one could pinpoint from the second day I had it! I ended up hauling it back to the selling dealer, and they were the ones that did the final diagnosis, and they did make a decent trade for me, so, with all that.....the '15 is history and I dont know if the 2015+ fuel system has been released or not. If not, the truck is still setting on the dealers repair lot and that has been 2 months ago, if it has been repaired, it is either on the dealers lot or somebody else has it and I wish them the best!Now I could have went next door and traded a broke down Ford for a Dodge........just imagine the beating I would have taken there! And they only had one that fit my needs! DRW, HO engine, Aisin transmission and that one sold shotrly after I looked at it! But then, Dodge/Cummins,are not without issues either!
With all this being said, I Still trust my Ford, and trust that Ford will do the right thing if they have the right information! I got burned bad by GM with a new at the time '83 GMC with the 6.2 l diesel, and I had a late model mopar and their elecrical issues so I dont need to go there either!
In my memory of FTE, back in 2011 and 2012, some members of FTE made it seem like failure was a 100% certainty. Every
6.7L HPFP on the planet was going to fail and likely by the end of the week. Today, I think we have more perspective around this issue and most failures seem to be covered by insurance of some kind. Still expensive but kind or rare when FTE trucks are used as a sample size.
When I read the quoted thread, I always remind myself to never purchase a used truck. I've traded low mileage cars due to head gasket and transmission failures. Although not all low mileage vehicles are on the lot due to mechanical troubles, certainly some of them are. Not all of them have been fixed correctly or by a dealer.
bruce...
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 1,190
From: Door Cty/Florida
I hope so... I also hope the Q1 fix corrects the issue these FTE members are having.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,158
Likes: 35
From: North of Salt Lake City
Wow, I come back after a couple of years and this old thread resurrects?
Just kidding. It does bring back those bad-old memories of doom and gloom of falling skies and butt-hurt feelings of self-important, sanctimonious single-issue members. Life is too short to spend on campaigns. You buy a mechanical device, you roll the dice. If you can't stand the risk, buy insurance and be prepared if the odds stack against you. I wish I could say there is no risk of injury in this world but that's not realistic.
It's been gratifying to know that the 6.7 power train has been statistically incredibly successful. I feel bad for those who fell out of the margin, really I do. I'd feel bad if it happened to me. I still enjoy my truck and look forward to the next one.
Just kidding. It does bring back those bad-old memories of doom and gloom of falling skies and butt-hurt feelings of self-important, sanctimonious single-issue members. Life is too short to spend on campaigns. You buy a mechanical device, you roll the dice. If you can't stand the risk, buy insurance and be prepared if the odds stack against you. I wish I could say there is no risk of injury in this world but that's not realistic.
It's been gratifying to know that the 6.7 power train has been statistically incredibly successful. I feel bad for those who fell out of the margin, really I do. I'd feel bad if it happened to me. I still enjoy my truck and look forward to the next one.