Water4Gas
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Austin, Texas
The point is that if you understand what polar covalent bonding is, then you would understand how much energy it takes to produce any quantity of gas from electrolysis, and why an automotive circuit can't physically produce enough power to generate the amount of hydrogen needed to actually improve mileage.
Because it doesn't work. And I'm not quoting other forum posts, I'm quoting actual real world physics.
And in your other thread, your HHO generator isn't working. Every single "mileage test" you have run is done with a fooler box turned on to limit the fueling and reduce the power in your truck engine, and you only run very short distances, like 30 miles.
It also doesn't work for anyone else in this thread either.
Because it doesn't work. And I'm not quoting other forum posts, I'm quoting actual real world physics.
And in your other thread, your HHO generator isn't working. Every single "mileage test" you have run is done with a fooler box turned on to limit the fueling and reduce the power in your truck engine, and you only run very short distances, like 30 miles.
It also doesn't work for anyone else in this thread either.
Polar covalent bonding is just the tip of the iceberg here -- when talking electrolysis, the secondary hydrogen bonding of water is also a key factor. This is why the specific heat of water is so high, why water-based life on the planet Earth is possible, and why your electrolysis engine mods are pipe-dreams at best and new-age cons BS at worst.
I <3 science.
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, BC
This is the truth. A first semester chem student can tell you the same thing. You don't have to try something if known laws of physics/chemistry indicate it's not possible. You may balk at this reasoning, but it's the same line of thinking that keeps you from jumping out of windows in tall buildings. An ability to predict what will happen based on known laws of physics is handy, and you use it all the time. Every time you catch a ball. Or boil water. And, gee, why does it take so long for water to boil? Glad you asked.
Polar covalent bonding is just the tip of the iceberg here -- when talking electrolysis, the secondary hydrogen bonding of water is also a key factor. This is why the specific heat of water is so high, why water-based life on the planet Earth is possible, and why your electrolysis engine mods are pipe-dreams at best and new-age cons BS at worst.
I <3 science.
Polar covalent bonding is just the tip of the iceberg here -- when talking electrolysis, the secondary hydrogen bonding of water is also a key factor. This is why the specific heat of water is so high, why water-based life on the planet Earth is possible, and why your electrolysis engine mods are pipe-dreams at best and new-age cons BS at worst.
I <3 science.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
Really? Then explain to everyone exactly how I'm wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait.
In fact, I would love to see anyone who is pushing HHO to explain the science behind it. All I ever see are "testimonials" with zero science behind it. Mileage claims are also done in a way that's fishy at best, and downright wrong and done incorrectly at worst.
In fact, I would love to see anyone who is pushing HHO to explain the science behind it. All I ever see are "testimonials" with zero science behind it. Mileage claims are also done in a way that's fishy at best, and downright wrong and done incorrectly at worst.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 3
From: Sapulpa OK
Does anyone really believe this? That it is possible to run your engine on water????? Don't try to tell me big oil has subdued this idea either. That would only work in America where big business can in theory prevent a small inventor from succeeding. But there are smaller governments all over the world clamoring for just such a brakthrough, if there was one. We as americans are pretty self centered if we think we control all the worlds inventions.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
Want a quick lesson on how to test HHO on your truck? Here's what you do:
1) Strap the truck to a dyno.
2) Hook up a diagnostic scan tool capable of monitoring fuel injection pulsewidth.
3) Get the truck up to speed on the dyno and set the cruise control.
4) With the HHO generator turned off, monitor the fuel injection pulsewidth.
5) Without touching anything else, switch on the HHO generator.
6) Continuing watching the fuel injection pulsewidth.
If pulsewidth remains the same, it means the HHO generator is worthless.
If pulsewidth decreases, it means the HHO generator is working.
Simple test. Dyno runs are cheap. The beauty of them is they remove terrain, wind, and other variances, so the test is repeatable, and extremely accurate.
1) Strap the truck to a dyno.
2) Hook up a diagnostic scan tool capable of monitoring fuel injection pulsewidth.
3) Get the truck up to speed on the dyno and set the cruise control.
4) With the HHO generator turned off, monitor the fuel injection pulsewidth.
5) Without touching anything else, switch on the HHO generator.
6) Continuing watching the fuel injection pulsewidth.
If pulsewidth remains the same, it means the HHO generator is worthless.
If pulsewidth decreases, it means the HHO generator is working.
Simple test. Dyno runs are cheap. The beauty of them is they remove terrain, wind, and other variances, so the test is repeatable, and extremely accurate.
New User
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
I don't know if you would call it a scam but I bought the book from runyourcaronwater.com or something similar... its there competitor...
N e how.. it was just an E-Book that was hard as hell to follow. I took many engineering courses through out high school and what not and let me Tell you... the stuff they are proposing is ridiculously hard to follow and can be built for MUCH less and in a better way. Furthermore, they never told me how to hook it up to a 6.0 diesel... lol or any diesel for that matter. It was just a bunch of references for who to call and what to order. And you did the rest of the leg work. Like if you wanna find out how to hook it up to your vehicle click here.. and its a number. Then it tells you to call and ask. And the place doesn't even know cuz they only deal with gas... I was a little angry with it really.
But, I can;t speak for that website but i hear they are similar and well, they are. If it one thing you need to do its your own due diligence on the subject.
Check out Yahoo forums for HHO. Hydroxide. Water for gas. Bob Boyce.... things that pertain to the matter and you'll find SOOOO much info you could spend literally yrs reading it all.
They all work basically the same. The safest method being using electrolysis to Separate water molecules into HH and O (2 hydrogens, 1 Oxygen atom). Hence the name hydroxy gas.
So in doing so you end up with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. the concept is that you then inject that gas into the intake of you vehicle. Sounds simple but it isn't.
Getting the HHO gas is EASY! But getting it to run your truck... thats hard.
First let talk about the getting it to supplement your fuel for a more complete burn so your not thowing 20% of you fuel that you paid for out the tail end (well to the Cat to be burnt so you have good emissions). With older carborated cars... its easy they say... Because there arnt o2 sensors telling a PC to add or remove fuel. So that would be easy to use it on and get great results. Problem with Fuel injected engine with EFIEs on em' lik our newer trucks is once we add that hydroxy gas into our inlet the Pc recognizes that as more oxygen getting to the engine. So it adds more fuel, completely diminishing the positive characteristics of adding it in the first place. (at least from what I have read this is what I got out it all. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone)
there are way to trick the o2 sensors and what not. But, well I'm not that far yet so I couldn't tell ya.
But to have it run completely off HHO gas (by the way HHO gas and Hydroxy are the same thing), you'll need a very very large amount of HHO gas being generated at an instant. This is very hard. I think Bob Boyce's 101 plate design is the highest output of HHO gas generation I have seen yet. 60 liters per min. Thats enough gas to fill a 2 liter bottle every second. That can not suffice as enough fuel to run our 6.0's much less 7.3 and what have you. It is however enough to run motorcycles, and very small beater cars...
And if all this is true why doesn't everyone do... um um.. to much $$$ to be made in oil right at the moment and um um an oil Pres maybe... Don't really know so I couldn't tell you.
But the guy to really invent it and actually have a working HHO gas Buggy took it all the way and was in supreme court with some big oil comps.. sadly he was murdered by poison shortly after. Says a little something huh?
Good Luck,
Alex
N e how.. it was just an E-Book that was hard as hell to follow. I took many engineering courses through out high school and what not and let me Tell you... the stuff they are proposing is ridiculously hard to follow and can be built for MUCH less and in a better way. Furthermore, they never told me how to hook it up to a 6.0 diesel... lol or any diesel for that matter. It was just a bunch of references for who to call and what to order. And you did the rest of the leg work. Like if you wanna find out how to hook it up to your vehicle click here.. and its a number. Then it tells you to call and ask. And the place doesn't even know cuz they only deal with gas... I was a little angry with it really.
But, I can;t speak for that website but i hear they are similar and well, they are. If it one thing you need to do its your own due diligence on the subject.
Check out Yahoo forums for HHO. Hydroxide. Water for gas. Bob Boyce.... things that pertain to the matter and you'll find SOOOO much info you could spend literally yrs reading it all.
They all work basically the same. The safest method being using electrolysis to Separate water molecules into HH and O (2 hydrogens, 1 Oxygen atom). Hence the name hydroxy gas.
So in doing so you end up with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. the concept is that you then inject that gas into the intake of you vehicle. Sounds simple but it isn't.
Getting the HHO gas is EASY! But getting it to run your truck... thats hard.
First let talk about the getting it to supplement your fuel for a more complete burn so your not thowing 20% of you fuel that you paid for out the tail end (well to the Cat to be burnt so you have good emissions). With older carborated cars... its easy they say... Because there arnt o2 sensors telling a PC to add or remove fuel. So that would be easy to use it on and get great results. Problem with Fuel injected engine with EFIEs on em' lik our newer trucks is once we add that hydroxy gas into our inlet the Pc recognizes that as more oxygen getting to the engine. So it adds more fuel, completely diminishing the positive characteristics of adding it in the first place. (at least from what I have read this is what I got out it all. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone)
there are way to trick the o2 sensors and what not. But, well I'm not that far yet so I couldn't tell ya.
But to have it run completely off HHO gas (by the way HHO gas and Hydroxy are the same thing), you'll need a very very large amount of HHO gas being generated at an instant. This is very hard. I think Bob Boyce's 101 plate design is the highest output of HHO gas generation I have seen yet. 60 liters per min. Thats enough gas to fill a 2 liter bottle every second. That can not suffice as enough fuel to run our 6.0's much less 7.3 and what have you. It is however enough to run motorcycles, and very small beater cars...
And if all this is true why doesn't everyone do... um um.. to much $$$ to be made in oil right at the moment and um um an oil Pres maybe... Don't really know so I couldn't tell you.
But the guy to really invent it and actually have a working HHO gas Buggy took it all the way and was in supreme court with some big oil comps.. sadly he was murdered by poison shortly after. Says a little something huh?
Good Luck,
Alex
Hi ALEXVB22,
Thank you for such a informative post. I would like to know who invented HHO ?
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 26
And if all this is true why doesn't everyone do... um um.. to much $$$ to be made in oil right at the moment and um um an oil Pres maybe... Don't really know so I couldn't tell you.
The world is not the United States of America. Not everyone makes money on oil, and there is nothing to stop anyone who wants to fabricate a personal or corporate unit. There is nothing to stop anyone from using programming their own EFI to make best use of HHO. If it works there is far more money to be made using it then not, and countries that don't care about US oil money or the "Illuminati" or any other conspiracy (because they can back up their wishes with force) would be all over it to improve the efficiency of stationary power generation systems as well as motor vehicles. After all, if this magic gas works in a mobile application under irregular operating conditions, imagine the vast benefits in a tightly controlled stationary combustion situation! China in particular needs fossil fuels, has plenty of capable scientists, the business community serves the government, and....no HHO.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 2
From: Vancouver Island
Some other parts of the world, like Europe and the UK, pay much more for gas than Americans do. They should be even more motivated to make HHO work. (Just where does that extra money go to? Taxes to pay for free health care and university?) Unfortunately, the only way it could be practical is if you have an unlimited and portable source of electricity, like a miniature fusion reactor or an extension cord to an RV park in another dimension. And if you had such a source of electricity, possibly you'd prefer to run an electric motor directly since that would be much more efficient. Energy is wasted converting water to gas, and much more when burning it in an engine due to unavoidable laws of thermodynamics.
Tuned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: MI
For the time wasted, energy needed, and energy recovered... its a waste of time. For all the effort you put in, you may see 1-2mpg increase in the end. As stated already, you can't put your theory on immediate results. The EFI computer will change and adapt. What are those results really after a couple of months? And, for the time and effort it takes to keep the generator clean and filled all the time, is it worth it?
Don't believe this is going to work and save you huge amounts of money. Water 4 Gas is a pyramid scam. He goes on about selling his books yourself and how you could sell the same information to someone else.
This is fun as an experiment, or even a hobby. Go ahead and keep playing with different designs and ideas. Make more output on less amperage. But keep in mind that nothing has been created yet that makes it completely worthwhile to do this.
Your better off putting a small turbo on your car.
Don't believe this is going to work and save you huge amounts of money. Water 4 Gas is a pyramid scam. He goes on about selling his books yourself and how you could sell the same information to someone else.
This is fun as an experiment, or even a hobby. Go ahead and keep playing with different designs and ideas. Make more output on less amperage. But keep in mind that nothing has been created yet that makes it completely worthwhile to do this.
Your better off putting a small turbo on your car.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Rip VanWinkle country. NY
What if a wind turbine was rigged to catch the moving air as a vehicle was traveling, and that turbine was connected to a generator used to power the HHO ( or H2O, or whatever) generator? What if we could allow the ECM to compensate for the additional HHO fuel ? I really will stay out of the scientific knowledge portion of the thread, but I don't like giving up on potentially workable ideas. I had to install a phone line for remote access to a medical grade Cat Scan machine, and after testing line access with the CT Tech I asked him how such a large magnet was kept powered up for the duration of the test. He attempted to explain to me that the magnet was made up of super conductors, and after initial power up the loop was closed, and the magnet could retain power for an extended period of time. That got me thinking, what would we need to do to turn that magnet into a motor???
Ya,
I know, never mind.
Ya,
I know, never mind.