Wow, yet another noob cruises on in and starts posting without reading the thread...

PT Barnum was too optimistic....

The car in that movie will fly or flubber will be proven to exist before this scheme ever works without risking permanent damage to the engine.

 

I haven't read all the posts on this subject so this may be a repeat of somebody already but after about the 7th or 8th page I was screaming to myself WATER INJECTION, WATER INJECTION.

It ,i believe, what is responsible for at least some of the claims being made here about these hydrogen systems.

Water injection like turbo chargeing has been around for a long time. The military used it in piston driven fighters to boost power, control preignition, and to make the engine exhaust gas cooler thereby saving the exhaust valves from the damage caused by running the engine leaner.

 

Water injection is an entirely different thing, and it does work to some degree.

 

Water injection is not an entirely different thing. Water is being injected by these hydrogen kits.

My buddy bought one. I tried to talk him out of it. There is a lot of water vapor coming through the line and entering the intake. If you check out previous posts you will see that that is being observed by other users of these kits.

Water injection does increase power,and increase mileage especially if the mixture is leaned out. It decreases preignition and exhaust gas temp also.

The amount of hydrogen produced by these units is miniscule. The real advantage is the water vapor being produced.

My buddy is constantly messing around with the potasium hydroxide mixture, adding water, Dealing with freezing in the winter etc etc. more trouble than it's worth

He's had it for about 4 mo. and has notice some increase in mileage but nothing to brag about. He'd probably toss the whole thing right now but doesn't want to hear me say I TOLD YOU SO. I give him until next winter when the thing freezes up due to him not putting in the alcohol then he'll stop using it.

Water injection would have given him the same improvements with a little less hassle. But still some hassle. Which is why most of these mileage imrovement gimmicks stop being used.

 

Nope. The purpose of the hydrogen kits is, guess what, adding hydrogen to the mixture! Since hydrogen is normally generated onboard, that requires quite a bit of electricity.

There's no such hocus-pocus needed for water injection, just an adapter that can use engine vacuum to suck in water, and some kind of control system, although for a really good water injection system, one would need to use injectors similar to fuel injectors, which is most likely not the case with add-on systems, though a throttle body water injection system can probably rigged up without too much difficulty.

 

Perhaps i am not being clear enough. What I am saying is that water vapor is being produced as a by product of producing the hydrogen. I know it is because I have seen it. That, i believe, is responsible for some if not all of the mileage claims being made by the producers of these kits.

And if water injection is the reason why mess around with the hydrogen.

 

Well, I tried one I made on my 90 Acura Integra. I never saw any improvement in mileage. But it did heat and cause steam and eventually boild in the jar. I've heard that the moisture can help clean things (not sure how much I buy into that theory). I ended up taking mine back off. I did at least try to give it a fair shake.

 

re: Water4Gas and hydrogen power for your engine. Okay guys, you're getting way off base here. The idea is not to run your engine with HHO only, because that would be a stretch. It was discovered about 100 years ago that if you run an electrical current between two electrodes through a solution of water and a catalyst, in this case simple baking soda, the water (H2O) will breakdown into hydrogen and oxygen. There are always portions of unburnt fuel in the cylinder, and this, with a bit of soot (?) shoot out the exhaust pipe and cause pollution. Especially in diesels ! If you devise a system to funnel the hydrogen/oxygen mixture into the cylinder head with the regular gas or diesel, the hydrogen will burn (explode) fiercely, helping to burn any unburnt fuel in the cylinder, thus producing more power. In order for something to burn, we need oxygen. Presto... the HHO is an extra supply of oxygen !!! This provides extra power from the engine with less pollution, cooler engine temperature, smoother running engine, and a sizeable increase in miles per gallon. Most that have tried this report an increase from 20 to 50% in mileage. Used in diesel transport trucks, they reportedly give sizeable increase in mileage and more low-end torque for pulling uphill, with less gear changing.
You can build and install the system yourself for less than $100.00, and if you are mechanically challenged, there'll be one of your buddies would love to try it out.
I just read up on this yesterday and it makes perfect sense to me. Who knows why the car companies won't jump on this. They are looking at hydrogen-propelled vehicles that require you to carry a large tank of liquid hydrogen in your car. In case of a bad accident, what happens to that tank? Remember the Pinto??? In this system, the hydrogen is made only when the ignition is on and is never stored, so no big BOOM is possible. The way my old truck burns gas, any improvement in gas mileage will pay for itself in a short order. I have a 1996 Ford F250 with a 352 cu.in V8 which I use to tow a 25ft. trailer. Hopefully I can make it easier to tow with this device. I've ordered the course already (it's only $67.00, and has a full refund if it doesn't work) and after doing a couple of runs to establish mileage without the system, I'll install it and see how the mileage compares after installation. You can go to the address I used at
Hybrid Water Power-HHO Kits,Hydrogen Generator,HHO Gas,Gas Conversion Kits,Brown's Gas to check it out and decide if you wat to try it out too.
Good Luck....Les....

 

Please post a picture of that system that you've seen.

While I have not seen any such systems, I took quite a bit of chemistry in school (as a matter of fact, I was a Chemistry major for a while) and unless you boil the water being electrolyzed, or intentionally suck in some water, the gases won't contain a significant amount of water.

 

We may be at cross-purposes here. The process I describe breaks water down into Hydrogen and Oxygen. When these two gases burn, the result is pure water - somehow they rejoin to make water. I'm not a chemist so I can't explain how. The by-product of the burning is more power, and a bit of water coming out of the exhaust pipe and less pollution from soot and unburned fuel. I don't have a picture yet of the system. I plan to make a video of my speedometer readings and mileage before and after installing the system, and also show how it is installed in the motor. Be patient, it will take me a week or so to do this, but good or bad, I'll let everybody know if it is all it's cracked up to be. Regards........Les..........

 

It's a pretty common knowledge that when you burn Hydrogen in the presence of Oxygen, you'll get water, and some energy in the form of heat and light. The problem is that in practical use, you'll end up putting in at least 4 - 5 times as much energy into the electrolysis in form of electricity then what you eventually get back.

In any case, I wish you the best luck with your project, and don't forget to inform us of your results.

 

Hello all - Just got back from holidays so a delay on installing my hydrogen generator. Thanks for the replies, but let me clear upa few things. This device is in no way any sort of water injection system. Water is a byproduct of the burning of hydrogen in oxygen and would be turned into steam by the heat in the cylinder head, which would then condense in the exhaust pipe. The extra mileage would come from complete burning of any unburnt gasoline plus the energy created from the burning (exploding) of the hydrogen gas. More explosion means more power. The electricity needed for the electrolysis is 12 volts and up to 20 amps., easily supplied by the alternator. More amps. would produce more hydrogen but also causes extra heat which could damge the container, as well as put too much load on the alternator. Perhaps the trial by PC_2000 didn't pan out because he did not make adjustments or enhancements to some of the sensors. You have to fool the O2 sensors, and maybe the MAP and Maf sensors so the computer doesn't make adjustments to the fuel delivery that negates what the hydrogen generator is trying to do.
I've received the manual (155 pages!), gone through it extensively, and this week will finally get around to getting the parts and putting the device together. I will still make the video and let you know the results. Visit my blog at LesMcMillan.com for more info and for some stories about old-time logging on the West Coast

 

Actually, I couldn't keep mine water from boiling in the jar. I was using an early plate design and heard later of the boiling problems. That was the first problem. I was then going to work on adjusting for the O2 sensor and others, if I'd solved the boiling problem. I'm going to look at other designs and try again sometime down the road.

 

as a control test, have you "fooled" these sensors without the hydrogen generator to see baseline fuel mileage and power figures?

 

Thanks Rick. I don't anticipate a boiling problem and can't tell you why it would happen, but will let you know my results after I get it installed.
Hi Eric - My truck is running quite well now and pulling my trailer without any problems. I have headers and the spacer that is supposed to give more air flow (Can't recall name) as well as a better air filter and oversize exhaust system. I'm not that much of a mechanic to do a lot of fancy testing, so can't do as you suggest, except to do a long test run over the same route before and after installation after allowing a weeks running to let the sensors and computer adapt or whatever they do. I had to put a new computer in last year and it took a while and lots of miles before it settled in, but once it did, it was great!.