Okay, you still haven't disproven my results. Please enlighten me all knowing engineering student...
I couldn't possibly be leaning out my engine enough to see the savings at the pump despite the constantly rising prices. I'm still driving virtually the same number of miles sometimes more, sometimes less. My driving habits haven't changed and I haven't seen any detrimental effects concerning performance (no preignition, no losss of power, no hestiation or stumbling under acceleration or other heavy load). The only manipulation is a slight change in the signal to the ecm for the MAP.

A friend that is also trying this experiment/road test is working with a much newer GMC pickup. He's also seen results of a higher magnitude. Please explain. Again the results don't jive with what you claim either. Must be one he!! of an illusion...

 

I was just correcting the misinformation you posted about internal combustion engines. I didn't say anything about the HHO stuff. By the way, I graduated and am now a professional engineer, working in engine research and development. One more thing, what was it that you think I claimed? The last post was nothing but facts.

 

I also am an engineering student. Though I may not have all the background as others on this board, if a person was to take a basic physics class they would understand that this does not and will not work for several reasons, and i will not get into great detail. The first reason is covered here Conservation of energy the info is pretty accurate. And second of all we will never be free of oil since it is in everything like plastic and styro-foam. But we sould go solar right but guess what all the resin in the solar panels comes from OIL lol. and lastly if America were to switch to water as a fuel then guess what the same mistake will be made again, by switching to water a supply and demand issue would arise and then the price of water would spike and i dunno about you i would rather spend $4.00/gal on fuel than $4.00/gal on fuel and $4.00/gal to drink but that's my opinion. We would be wiser to convert hydrogen to electrical energy than mechanical since there will be more loss with the heat and friction involved in the mechanical (ICE), IMHO.

 

I just wanted to thank Imadore for sticking to his guns on this thread. There was a similar discussion on the subject at an RV website forrum; and the guy who said it was working for him only posted once with no rebuttals to the disbelievers.

A friend who is a mechanic at the local Ford dealer is going to install a kit in his Escelade. He said the kit costs something like $1000, and appears to be real easy to install, and possibly not too difficult to make yourself for much less money. You can bet that I will be hounding him for his results when he finally gets it going.

I am still sitting on the fence on wether I believe it can work or not, but if it does, you can be sure I will either purchase or make 3 of them. I don't own anything that gets better than 16MPG; the 460-powered motorhome is the worst at about 7MPG.

One thing I can say is that I have heard several testimonials from various forrums from people who have them and say they work; but I have yet to hear from anyone who has one who say they don't work. Are they just too ashamed to report that they fell for a scam?

Kris

 

I recently bought a kit to try out on my wife's 01 Windstar. I paid for $40 plus another $20 or so for electrical and plumbing parts to get it hooked up plus the O2 sensor extenders. It consistantly has consistantly gotten 16 MPG driving the kids to daycare and then to work. I see this as low risk because I know that even if it doesn't work, I can sell the kit on ebay for what I paid for it, maybe more. One thing I have noticed that stands out to me that makes this seem different from the Tornado and Magnets and other junk out there is that I can't find anyone that has actually tried the thing that is saying it is a scam. The only people that are saying bad things about it are people that haven't tried it. You can build one of these things for under $40 easily yourself. All you need is some sort of container that holds about a quart, some SS for the electodes (people are using bolts, wire or plates, 304 or 316 SS are recomended) tubing and fittings to tap into a vaccuum line and the intake tube, and the wiring with a fuse to hook it up with. If you are running EFI, you will need O2 sensor extenders as well to move the pre cat sensors out of the exhaust stream or else it will richen the mixture when it senses too much O2 in the exhaust with this setup.

I am skeptical of these as well, but I will not come out and blindly say they do not work. I figure it's worth a shot. Unfortunately though, because it is in my wife's vehicle, any results will not be very scientific because we rarely fill the thing full. Her mileage is based solely off of the computer, which has been accurate the two or three times we have hand calculated it. The next step is to put one in my vehcile (93 festiva(yes I drive a festiva and want to get even better mileage.)) I will be able to keep better track of any results with mine as I keep a running spreadsheet with all my fill up records. I just figured it would be best to try it on the vehicle that gets the worst mileage first.

With the Windstar it has only been one day. I took a short 4 mile test drive through town with it and the computer was saying 22 MPG (which is better than it would normally get on the highway), however after I reset it so that it would be soley for my wife's driving, a trip to the grocery store and back said 13 MPG. The battery was unplugged for the install so the computer has some relearning to do so it's way too soon to make any conclusions but that 22MPG did show some promise. It does seem to be running a bit quieter as it had started to develop a knocking noise that has already seemed to go away. This could be due to the steaming action of the water cleaning it out a bit. The only thing I can say as of right now is that the CEL stayed off this time after unplugging the battery. Any other time I have unplugged it, it has been back on withing a few minutes of the first start. I want to give it a couple weeks before I make any opinions about it.

I will post any results I get as they come along, but I ask that people do keep an open mind and if you don't believe that it works, do what I'm doing and try to prove that it doesn't work before you come out and proclaim your engineering expertise to us. If you have such an engineering background, then you ought to be able to build a pretty good system to try out. These things do put out a good amount of gas, so if you build a system and it doesn't bubble (like the one on Mythbusters) then I guarantee you that it won't work.

I do understand the 1st law of thermodynamics. Water4Gas never proclaims that you can run a vehicle strictly off of the HHO. They claim that it enhances the combustion of petroleum fuels and increases the efficancy of the combustion process. Who knows what is really going on in there with it, but at least I will know first hand if it works or not.

-Adam

 

a) what kit did you buy? (link please)
b) how did you measure mpg? Is there an mpg gauge on the dashboard?

 

Where do you have to move the O2 sensors to? I am curious what the results would be if someone performed all of the other modifications except add the HHO generator. Another thing I am wondering is if the vehicle will pass an emissions inspection/test with the O2 sensors moved.

 

The kit was just a simple one off of ebay. There are several different ones, mine uses plates instead of wires or bolts. Included was the a disc with the Water4Gas manual online links. The extender (oxyisolator) is basically a spacer that keeps the O2 sensor attached to the exhaust in the same spot, but it sits outside of the exhaust stream. I also bought this on ebay for $5. This alone can improve mileage a little because it will cause it to run lean by itself, but from what I read, without it, the HHO kit may actually get worse mileage because it will sense that it is running too lean. When I say it will improve it some, I would highly doubt that those alone could account for some of the claims of 40% improvement that are being made. Maybe 1-2 mpg, but that is just a guess. As far as inspections go, I don't worry about them living in Nebraska.

One note, I ralize I am drawing too much current right now so I need to dilute my mixture. It blew a 7.5 amp fuse. Ideally I would like it to only draw about 3 amps, otherwise it creates too much heat. The computers mileage has settled back to 16 mpg, but again it was just installed yesterday and the computer still has some relearning to do.

 

a) At least post the seller's name and the product's title so I can look it up

b) as for the mpg gain, the gauges I've seen often use the vacuum the measure the instantaneous mpg, but over a given time period, they can be calibrated with actual amount of gasoline used, or some may directly measure the amount of gasoline injected.
Based on: "fittings to tap into a vaccuum line and the intake tube" the 'system' will use some vacuum for whatever purpose, and that could show up as a mpg gain on a simple gauge!! At least until the computer re-calibrates itself. A slightly different vacuum may have some other effects, too.

 

Here is a link to the same typ I bought. Like I said before, I won't be able to do this very scientifically because we rarely ever fill the tank on the minivan and my wife would never rmember to keep track of it anyways. I don't know how the MPG is measured. Our Windstar does not display instantaneous MPG, only average. I now wish it was on my car so I could give more accurate results, but when you have a minivan that gets 16 in town and a Festiva that gets 35+ in town, you tend to try it on the one that it can save the most fuel. For as cheap as these things are to build, even if it is only a minor improvement, it will be worth it. I would to have one operating on my festiva by the end of the week, but this is a busy week for me so no guarantees.

eBay Motors: 316L STAINLESS STEEL HHO GENERATOR@LOOK GREAT DEAL (item 320268638163 end time Jul-03-08 16:30:03 PDT)

 

Just an update as it's been over two weeks with this thing. Reminder that because this is on my wife's 01 Windstar, that I am only going by what the MPG computer tells me, so take it for what it's worth, but from what I can tell it seeems to be fairly accurate. We were able to average as much as 26 MPG going 60MPH using cruise on mostly flat roads and no wind. Once we hit the hills before getting back into town, it dropped down to 25 MPG. I have never seen it get over 23 before and we've had it on the same stretch of road before. Around town and at interstate speeds however we are noticing almost no change. If it is the HHO cell that gave us a highway MPG boost, it could be because it is only a single cell and is most efficient at low RPM's as it may not be producing enough gas to do it's thing at higher RPM's. I am building a multicell unit to try out that should give me more output from the same electrical input. The HHO gas is determined by amps not volts. Ideally, a multi cell unit with 6 or 7 cells is most efficiant if they are hooked up in series so that total voltage is divided among the cells while keeping amps the same.
To sum it up so far, I can't say with any definate proof that this thing actually works, but it does have me optimistic that with a more efficient cell, that it just might.

 

Folks,
You have to check out this video: LINK.
Incredible video. You have to go about 20minutes into the video for the interview with Stan Meyer and how he produces hydrogen gas.

 

Wow! Some scammers are getting really sophisticated and scientific.

Just 2 general comments: (they should apply to many past, and possibly even to many future posts )

a) If any of these were working, that could lead to an unimaginable wealth to whoever can market it first, and so they could make money with that, instead of making movies. And those evil power companies would be more than happy to generate electricity from water, instead of fossil fuels and other, more expensive sources.

b) No one can break the laws of physics, that's why they are called laws, though someone smart enough can certainly change them, but I don't think there are very many people who are up to that task. Normally, what happens is that an existing law gets augmented, if there is a change -- they don't usually get thrown out.

Lack of rational thinking and lack of scientific knowledge...

 

"Lack of rational thinking and lack of scientific knowledge..."

We don't need those when we have infomercials!

"Folks,
You have to check out this video: LINK .
Incredible video. You have to go about 20minutes into the video for the interview with Stan Meyer and how he produces hydrogen gas."

I again encourage everyone to BELIEVE and spend your money on every water4gas product offered for sale. People who want to be suckers that badly deserve to be robbed blind.

 

[quote=monckywrench;6364750I again encourage everyone to BELIEVE and spend your money on every water4gas product offered for sale. People who want to be suckers that badly deserve to be robbed blind.[/quote]
Nice guy....great comment. Maybe I'll stick to other forums where people
have more class.