LOL, 20-30 miles???? ROFL, That's called a "placebo effect".

Water4Gas is the biggest scam ever.

I can hook up foolers to my truck, and "report" back any mileage increase I want. In fact, I can get my overhead mileage display to read greater than 30 mpg's. I've done it before, and all without HHO.

Put it this way, hydrogen is a fuel. If fuel is burning, it's making more power. If it's making more power, yet you aren't asking for more power, the PCM will automatically cut the fueling. It's that simple. If you don't know how this works, learn how to tune a vehicle.

It doesn't matter if HHO doesn't work. The fooler box itself is what's giving the perceived mileage gain, not the HHO.

Yeah, those were debunked a while back too.

Get used to disappointment from Water4Gas.

 

You say fooler box alone will give you the perceived mpg gain. I will try the fooler box alone, without HHO as well. Good point.

Pocket: to be honest with you, I could care less about proving anything for Water4Gas, I want to do this for my own benefit and curiosity. Will I share my observations like we said? Absolutely.

I don't tune for a living, but modding my vehicles and working with chips for a long time I understand PCM logic and Engine Management a little bit.

 

The fooler boxes that you get with HHO systems are designed to lean out the mixture. Use at your own risk.

That's the biggest scam that people don't realize. Running lean mixtures on a gas engine might give you better mileage, but run too lean and you're asking for reliability problems later down the road.

That's fine. Run HHO on a dyno like I mentioned before. It's a sure fire way to actually test the system.

The shear lack of hydrogen volume alone is what makes HHO systems useless on vehicles. First thing I can recommend you to look up is a term called "polar covalent bonding". Once you understand what that means, you'll see why HHO systems are so inefficient. Electrolysis is the most inefficient method there is to recover hydrogen out of water.

The lack of amps is why HHO systems in vehicles does not work. You can't get enough hydrogen volume out of a system that draws only 15 or 30 amps, regardless of any additives you put in the water, or the number or configuration of rods thrown in the system. You simply can't bypass the laws of physics.

Then be careful running fooler boxes, especially on a gas engine, and especially if that box is designed to lean the mixture out.

 

Nope. You can install several alternators for several hundred amps, and it will still not work.

 

Correct. Because you still don't have enough amps.

Amperage is what increases volume in electrolysis. A perfectly average internal combustion engine can run on hydrogen. Nasa proved that back in the 70's.... but it wasn't with electrolysis. They used a big hydrogen tank to feed right into the intake. Of course, when you run 40% hydrogen and 60% gasoline, they found the motors lived an extremely short lifespan.

The problem is the lack of volume of hydrogen needed to improve mileage and/or run an engine on hydrogen. Since electrolysis is the most inefficient method of hydrogen recovery, it requires far too many amps than what we can physically get out of a vehicle, even if we stack multiple alternators. It requires more than just "several hundred amps". Heck, people have put 800 amp car batteries to their electrolysis systems, and barely created enough hydrogen to get a small lawnmower engine to struggle to idle. Of course, the battery was drained in a matter of minutes.

That is why I've stated over and over again in this thread that HHO doesn't work. It's a VERY simple problem of physics, things kids learn in high school.

 

USED to learn in high school in the US. Probably still do elsewhere, where science and engineering are still valued.

Perhaps the First Law of Thermodynamics is an Illuminati Conspiracy to deter people from tapping into the Universal Reservoir of Free Stuff. In furtherance of that delectable conspiracy, Science and Industry have ignored the Messiahs of Free Energy at the cost of trillions of dollars in lost profit.

 

The never ending thread. P.T. Barnum was right

 

Again, it's not the Amps. It's the (in)efficiency of conversions. Automotive alternators are around 50% - 62%, electrolysis is reported to be about 50% - 80% (though home made systems could easily be less than that) but for simplicity, assume that the efficiency from mechanical power to H2 is 33.33%, Internal combustion engines are about 18% - 25%, and you feed back whatever little hydrogen get generated.

I could plug in numbers if anyone wants that, but as you use more electricity generated by the engine, the whole process will become less and less efficient.

 

Well I’m averaging about 7 to 8 MPG with my "Hearse" 91 F-350 crew long bed 460 auto! And any improvement will help I built my HHO gen and now a bubbler hope to get it hooked up tonight! 1 empty tank will allow me to switch tanks and see if it will run!!

 

I was wondering yet again how long it would take for this silly crap to make a return on the forum....

Now I know, again.

 

SILLY OR NOT
if i cant get the gov outa my pocket i will try what i gota! ta survive
if this dont work then i try moonshine then i wont wana drive!!!

 

I gave up reading this thread on page four. "HHO" gas is a scam. Period. As an ASE certified Master Technician I've dealt with people trying to sell this idea to me for years now, and I have YET to see any credible proof that it actually works.

1> Believers actually think that "HHO" is some kind of magical gas that will revolutionize the industry. WRONG! What they call "HHO" is nothing more than Hydrogen and Oxygen.

2> Believers actually think that using this "HHO" gas in a vehicle will dramatically increase fuel economy, sometimes making claims that it doubled or even tripled the economy of their engines! I saw one person claim 150MPG! WRONG! With supposed gains of THAT MUCH it shouldn't be difficult to properly reproduce and document the results, and if that were done they would make the headlines of every national newspaper and scientific journal. It hasn't happened yet. While there are those that make these crazy claims to sell these systems, there are other that actually believed that they got these insane figured! Usually it's an error in the math while figuring out their MPG numbers. Maybe they topped it off, drove 20 miles and filled it up again, and when the pump clicked off at 0.2 gallons.. BAM! They got 100 MPG! That's hardly accurate.

3> Believers try to disprove non-believers by turning the issue around, making it look like the non-believers claim that a car will not run on "HHO" gas at all! WRONG! Since "HHO" is nothing more than Hydrogen and Oxygen, two very ignitable substances, then of course an Internal Combustion engine can run on it! That's been proven time and time again. The question is, is it efficient enough to make it worthwhile? I saw a video of a guy idling his lawnmower on "HHO" gas alone. It was pretty cool until the camera panned out and followed the fuel line going into the house, up the stairs, into a room, and seeing it hooked up to a machine that looked like it drew about 100 amps and was about the size of a Smart Car just to produce enough of this gas to run the lawnmower. There is no way in hell that is more efficient than pouring a few cups of gasoline into it.

4> Believers ignore the fact that an "HHO" system on a car is nothing more than a "Perpetual Motion Machine" and science has proven time and time again that this simply isn't possible. This is why this is not only a theory in science, but it is a LAW! If you could "crack" water and get more energy out of it then you put into cracking it, then you could literally run a car forever and only have to add pure water to it. Believe me, if it were this simple it would have been done already. The simple truth is that it takes electricity to "crack" the water, and that electricity comes from the alternator which is rotated using a belt connected to an internal combustion engine. The more electricity that alternator has to put out, the harder it is to turn which means the engine has to work harder and use more fuel. For an "HHO" setup to work, you'd have to get enough extra power out of that gas to cover the extra load on the engine and then some. I haven't seen this happen yet. I had an uncle who thought he had a great idea! He was going to put a pulley on an electric motor, and install a belt to connect it to two alternators. One alternator was going to be used to power the electric motor, and the other was going to be used to provide electricity for him to use! "Free energy!" he thought. For some reason, he never could get it to work! This is no different. Believe me, this "technology" is nothing new.. nothing new at all. It's been around just as long as electricity has and the equipment they sell for it today is not really any more advanced than what was pushed around in the 70's during the fuel crisis.

Those of you who spend big bucks on this stuff actually expecting gains are literally throwing money away. Now if you want something to play around with, yes this would make a great science experiment! Buy one for your kids, but don't expect it to be any sort of miracle to come out of it. If you really want to save money and 'save the planet' go buy/build yourself an electric car and push for more Nuclear Power Plants, as that's the best thing we've got at the moment.

 

Yes those big trucks really gulp down the fuel don't they! Seriously though for something that gets 8MPG you would save a lot more money by purchasing a small four-banger that gets 30MPG to drive around when you don't need to haul anything. I hear you about getting the government out of our pockets though! They are definitely digging WAY too deep. It just keeps getting worse and worse and the people LET IT HAPPEN! And then there's the smoking thing. I've been smoke free for over 2 years now. While DO breathe easier, I've also put on about 50 lbs and feel more out of shape now then when I was smoking! I'm working on that now too, but seriously, the government needs to POOP OR GET OFF THE POT with this stuff. Either make tobacco illegal altogether or let it be. These anti-smoking laws are absolutely ridiculous and are completely violating our rights. Now I hear that legislation is going around in Illinois (neighbor state to me) to make Trans Fats illegal.... aye aye aye.. The can of worms has been opened...

 

The thread that just won't die...........sigh..............

 

Driving old gas hogs isn't for survival, it's for fun and sometimes profit. I have plenty of them myself, but they don't move unless they make me a buck.

Want economy? Start with an economical vehicle.