If someone told me they could get me 500 ft-lbs out of a $1500 300 long block I would insist on a money back guarantee (get it in writing) if it doesn't spin the numbers on the dyno. $1500 is the price for a stock rebuild.

Here are some numbers to chew on:

It takes about 1.5 cfm of total engine airflow to generate each horsepower in the average engine. The 300 has proven to be more efficient than most, so it will probably need less. Just for the sake of discussion let's say it takes 1 cfm/hp to keep the math easy. If our magical 300 runs at 100% volumetric efficiency it will be able to pump 150 ci of air per rev, or just under .1 cf. Given that it takes 10 rpm to make each HP, so you'll have 100 hp at 1000 rpm, 200 hp at 2000 rpm, etc. That is a perfect engine, which we can all agree does not exist. If you crunch all those numbers to find torque you find that it makes 525 ft-lbs at all rpm. You are not going to get an engine that is within .5% of perfect for $1500.

 

nicely written. now while i agree completely that a NA 300 with 500 ft/lbs tq would be absoultely amazing, i don't know how possible it is. i will encourage you to keep at it and I hope it works out for you. if you can't hit it, atleast you will have a strongly built engine that is ready for a turbo, super, nos, or a combo of them. good luck!
chris

 

yah Rot that kinda sounds a little crazy for only $1500 and on a sidenote...with 4" of lift why not just go with 35" tires?

 

I already have the 33s, I got 5 of them with 20/32nds tread (22/32nds is brand new)for $400.
As far as y'all thinkin I'm gettin hosed, he said $1500 for the engine work, as in boring the block .030" over, align boring the journals, porting polishing and milling the head, including bigger valves, putting in the bearings, crank, cam, and pistons, blah blah blah. Basically the way its gonna go is I'm gonna tell him exactly what I want, and he's gonna do it. I have to get all the parts through him, or the labor rate goes up. All in all, I will probably be into the engine setup about $3000-$3500. He said $1500 for the block and head work, sans intake, carb, and headers. There are going to be other things that will also raise the price of this build, (radiator, electric fans, all the SS lines and hoses, the DUI Distributor, roller rockers, Clifford valve cover, Dual Optima Group 31A batteries, Powermaster Alternator, etc.). I was just happy that the engine work wasn't going to be as expensive ans I figured it would be.
As far as dyno numbers and all of that, sure, sure I'll post em, but remember its not going to be for 4 or 5 months if I'm lucky. I'm rebuilding this truck from the axles up, so that by the time I drop the engine in, I don't have to worry about anything breaking, and after its break in period, I can flog it all I want.
And on my own side note, you seem to forget that this is an inline engine that makes 265-280 lb ft stock. I'm not really that far off, and there is plenty that can be done. Besides, even if she doesn't do 500lb ft, at least I can say I did it, ya know?

 

I think u are getting a little overwhelmed by this and caught up with high numbers. i think u should step back a bit and ask urself a few questions...

Is this engine going to be reaible and last 100,000 miles +
Is this engine going to be streetable?
Is the power band going to be in the range that YOUR going to be using it...
Are u going to be satesfied if she only makes 400 torque or less?
How is the drivability going to be?

Also have a few things id like to say, to make the magic 500 torque, what RPM is it going to be at? are u going to be wanting to spend all the time at the RPM? what is the rest of the torque curve going to look like? will low end torque suffer?

i t hink u should concern urself more about the over all torque curve and make it at flat and smooth as possible, rather than worry over a peak torque. who needs to be spinning 4500 rpms to make peak torque when u can get the same effect spinning at 2500 with a nice, smooth, flat torque curve when u floor it. especially if going to be wheelin the rig.

also, i really wish u'd look into alternatives to some options u wanna do. for instance, the Powermaster alt...u can get just as much amperage just by going with a 130A 3G...and the electric fans...go for a set from a Taurus with a 3.8L v-6...or Lincoln contiental/Mark 8...they pull massive CFM and are cheap at the junkyards.

but i do respect ur ambition and devotion. i just hope that u arent getting ur hopes up and then be disappointed with the outcome. im glad ur going out and being different and i hope it works out for ya in the end. ur (hopefully) going to be the test mule for a lot of people here...

oh and remember, the best anyone here has done N/A was ColFlashman and he was at 400 torque...

 

309 SS and Optikal,
You have said in much more eloquent words what I have been saying for months now. It has been debated back and forth if in fact it is possible to build a 300 with 500ft lbs and for the sake of everything I hold dear I will say YES its possible. Assuming it is I want to say this: Optikal is 100% correct. When you build the motor and make 500+ft lbs what is your target RPM? You will be much happier with 350ft lbs at 2500rpm than 500ft lbs at 5000+. I dont think you can spin a 300 hard enough to make your tq # at any rpm less than 5000. If its like 5000+ its useless on the street. I am still not trying to talk you out of this just want you realize what it will take and where the power will be.

 

I understand where everybody is coming from, and I'm glad that you asked. You really must understand that 500lb ft is my goal. If she makes 350 lb ft at around 2500rpm I would be happy as a Lark, even if that is where it peaks, and never does any better. I don't plan on EVER spinning this engine past 4500 rpm, and yes, I do want the torque curve to be as flat as possible. This truck will have a locker in the rear, and a strong LS unit in the front. Compaired to my current open diffs, stock tq will feel like alot more both on road and off, LOL. To be honest, I hardly expect to reach 500, and would be surprised if it does. Even so, 500 pound feet of torque is still my goal.

As for longevity, I think it will last for at least 200,000 miles. I mean think about it, when an engine is rebuilt, the block is usually bored .030" over to get the cylinders back to round, and then the crank journals are cleaned up, etc, etc. More or less, the bottom end will be the same as a rebuilt engine, but only with some diffrent pistons to raise the CR a bit. Most of the power is going to come from what is done in the head.
I've built OTR truck diesel engines before, so I know engine assembly pretty well. As far as making more power, with a diesel, its all about pumping more air and fuel into them. The cam and valves are already set up to flow the maximum amount possible. With a gas engine there is so much to play with in the top end, its not even funny. What Jay (my machinist) and I are going to have to do is figure out the best combo to get the most power possible.
As far as the alternator and fans go, I decided on the Powermaster simply because it is the only 200A I have been able to find. I am going to be running some pretty big batteries (900CCA), and there are going to be about 10-12 lights, a compressor, both electric fans, a CB radio, and the sound system that will need to be powered. I used to have a Sable with a 3.8, and not only did the fans go bad on me, but two of the alternators did too, but then again, it could have been made on a Friday.
I know Col's truck made 400, and thats really neat, but I'm not really trying to one up anybody, or set an FTE record. I'm doing it for myself, because its what I enjoy doing. I know everybody here can completely understand that.

 

thats good just keep after 500 anyhow....people have been telling me not to try and build my 300 for 600 HP but i just dont listen haha...my 77 F-100 will only be used on street and some drag racing on weekends...lookin for low/mid 11s 1/4 times...I would still be happy if it made 450 HP but it'd be great if it made 500+ HP and 500+ Tq. good thing it has the 9" rear axle. Going for a 4-link with 'bags and a Mustang II style front system with 'bags. I know I know dont do this either-I'm putting 22s on it.No really I am.I know if I wanted to go offroad it can fit like 35s or something without a lift or any trimming but its a 4x2 why would i take a 2wd OFFROAD? If i found another truck just like it but 4wd I would build it for offroad and mine for onroad. FYI everyone-IT WILL NOT BE A FLAT BED ANYMORE when I'm done, looking for an 8' stock bed for it.Your truck should do rather well offroad with that 300. Make sure you get Dyno numbers on here and pics of it in gallery.Oh and send some to the magazine companys

 

lol, I'll show you guys everything, but screw the magazine companies. I don't care about that sort of hassle. Besides, most people would still say "Why'd you build a 300 for? A V8 woulda been better." Like complete ******s. At any rate... I recieved my lift kit today. Probably going to install it Sunday.
Decided to do a coolant flush on my EFI 300, went to put the thermostat housing back on, and the lower bolt tab broke! That is the 3rd one I've broken, and the second on an EFI 300. Had to get a new one from Auto Zone because NAPA and Carquest were both closed, and wound up having the crappy gasket that Auto Zone gave me leak. I put it on with Indian Head gasket dressing like I always have. Needless to say, I was preturbed. I made them give me a new jug of coolant, and a tube of thermostat silicone. Moral? Never shop at Auto Zone

 

My family hasn't really had a problem with parts from Autozone but we don't like the cocky 20 yr olds except the one that actually knows what your talking about and knows some ways of cheating on inspections such as illegal brake lines and not having a working emergency brake. The other part we did have a problem with is our new in-tank fuel pump for our 92 New Yorker was a little bit shorter than the original so it runs out of gas faster. Anyhow maybe you should just not buy parts there that you don't need to.Because we all know that, that Chinese and Japanese and Taiwanese parts are TRASH!

 

i have had the same problem with the bolt tab breaking, it really sucks. lets not get started on autozone, i always have to tell them things that they did not know, whole bunch of chevy lovers they are

 

the peppermint..ya they are chevy lovers and thats ok for them but the guy that we normally try to talk to drives a ford escort coupe from mid 90s and its pretty fast...we all need to get back on topic here haha

 

Well, the guys at the Auto Zone here are pretty knowledgeable, its just the parts.... Anyways. I got all the parts for my lift kit organized and labled, bushings installed into the parts of the lift, and all the boots on the shocks. Depending on how tomorrow goes, I will probably start disassembly when I get home from work tomorrow. My brother-in-law works at a tire shop and will be mounting and balancing my tires tomorrow morning. Theres a chance that his boss will let me bring my truck in to work on it there, as they have all the air tools and a lift. If not, I'm stuck doin' it the old fashioned way.

 

do it the old fashioned way anyhow...its more fun that way hehe

 

i also broke the lower bolt tab on the thermostat housing when doing my rebuild. the reason they break is because the thermostat can be known to slip out of its little groove. when you tighten down that lower bolt, you end up tightening over the thermostat. i guess the trick is to just be careful when sticking the thing in.

everything i do is the old fashioned way. i feel that if i can do it the old fashioned way, then someday when i have the fancy tools/garage, i will be able to do the job easier. i did my engine swap with the truck sitting on gravel, which means i had to throw down about 5 2x8 planks so that the borrowed/homemade engine lift could roll.
also, while doing the swap, the old engine rested nicely on two old tires stacked up.

anything is possible, as long as you have the will, the faith, the dream to make it possible...and it appears you have all of that to not only do the lift, but to build this monster engine...

good luck

chris