http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/a.../10-13-03.html
Car hit by Dodge Dually which couldn't control it's massive low-end torque:



1998 Dodge with the new 600 Cummins. Truck unable to handle all the new torque in 1st gear, ripped tires clean off:



Looking for 3rd gear with his NV5600 and ran into traffic:


Replaced a PSD with a 5.9 Cummins in his fishing boat, and jumped clear out of the lake due to the sudden increase in torque on the prop:



Hit by a Dodge Ram driver who bought a new 2004.5 and didn't realize the power he had in 1st gear ... was racing and beating a PSD at the time:


Chevy pulling RV with Duramax that commited Hari-Kari and self-imploded when extreme torque sucked in the engine mounts on either side. Saw a PSD passing by w/ twice the trailer size and had gunned it:


Another Chevy/Duramax, with such tremendous torque, that on engine-start the truck flipped over when the Allison locked up on him:



DODGE truck which was the winner of the most recent International 0-to-4 MPH Speed Trials at the lake-beds in California (Sponsored by NASA). Notice the dust trail off the rear wheels. Take with high-speed film:


H2 Hummer driver, who almost bought an Excursion, and now wishes he did:

 

Ironman I don't think I've laughed that hard in a long time.

 

Haha. You have a great sense of humor. I love it.

I have never heard of a group more dead set against a manual. At the very least they handle more torque and are cheaper to own.

I was unaware that it could lock up in first or second. Usually they will lock out those gears.

I guess Ive never missed a shift when it was important. So I dont understand the problem.

Just cause its in lockup doesnt mean its not still waisting energy. Its a hydraulic pump that still needs to be driven when in lockup. Its not throwing away rpms at highway speeds but when you let off the gas it comes uncoupled. Generally they dont operate til your up to so many mph so anything below that is burning your money up.

Just think every manual has grade braking and you can use an exhaust brake. There aint nothin better than a diesel with a six speed. It sounds funny to me to hear people advocating autos. Autos are for people that are too lazy to shift.

So lets recap. Theyre less efficient. They cost more to buy. They cost more to maintain. They are more prone to failure. They create excess heat for the cooling system. They have less torque at the wheels in first. All that is if the electronics are working good. The only benifit I can think of is they keep the turbo spooled.

 

I would put the Torqshift up against the ZF-6 any day. I agree that the ZF-6 is better than the 4R100, but Ford has a winner with the Torqshift.

In tow/haul mode it locks these gears. Under normal operation it does not. If you've never driven a PSD/Torqshift or Duramax/Allison I suggest you give it a try. It really does a good job of simulating a manual transmission when towing.

Actually, you are not really supposed to use an exhaust brake with the PSD because it has hydraulic lifters. People do it, but Ford and International warn against it. International specifically asked Jacobs NOT to develop a brake for the T444E and VT365. Yes, I know you can use one with the Cummins. With the tow/haul mode it really isn't necessary anyway.

I agree with you on most of these points, but they also shift faster. Faster shifts and keeping the turbo spooled up as a result make them more efficient when towing. In the eyes of most the advantages outweight the disadvantages. I also do not think the Torqshift is more prone to failure than the ZF-6.

 

Bull. The toqshift is pretty cool but im sorry you simply cant get as much power to the wheels as a manual. I have never missed a gear befor so thats not a problem unless you are really stupid and cant figure out how to shift. Sure, if you were to put two 6.0L's together one a auto and one a standard the auto would out accceralte it, but thats only because you cant shift that fast with a truck manual. The auto is great if you are going around town getting groceries in stop and go traffic all the time. But dont send me down a hill with a trailer behind me without a standard. Not evern a toqshift can hold you back going down a hill as well as the standard. and the torqshift and any auto is more prone to failure and malufntion then a standard. A standard is jut a clutch, and some gears and whatnot. I dont even have a clue how many parts there are in a auto.

 

I don't think anyone implied (unless I missed it) that a manual gets more power to the rear wheels. Again, the main point to remember is how the power is used. While an auto loses more power in the transmission, it shifts more efficiently also resulting in a more efficient use of the turbocharger. More boost equals the ability to burn more fuel. Yes, the Torqshift can hold you back going downhill just as well as a manual. With the tow/haul mode the tranny downshifts sooner and keeps the torque convertor locked until really low speeds. Unless you have actually driven one you don't know. When you have all test driven one then come back and tell us you're opinion.

 

Are we going with statistics here because if so, VW Jetta owners get into the least amount of accidents than any other vehicle owner so I'm gonna get the 1.9 TDI; but I better not get the manual because that 100 hp and 177 ft. lbs. of torque can be harsh on the take off.

 

King Ranch!!! At least you got it!!! I thought it was pretty dam funny myself.

This is the spanking these guys are getting, as they squeal like pigs at breakfast. I'm just not sure who's smoking the drugs on this towing issue ... it's:

ALL the Manufacturers, the brochures, the auto-engineers and engineer pundits like myself ...
VS.
The mysterious Pro-Dodge crowd on the Ford-Truck Enthusiast website.

Oh the comedy. I need my Dodge NV5600 1st gear to "beat everyone to the punch" ... so that 50 feet later, I'm wound up and ready for second.
Oh, give me a break.

Well, there's so much excess heat and thrown-away torque, I just don't know about those autos.
Talk to the hand.

I just think they're SO prone to failure, and you have so little torque at first gear, my 18,000 lbs trailer on the back of my F-550 may not roll, oh pity me.
Hello. McFly. Do we have a clue here? Please consult your GVCW limit to see what you can do, ladies.

Dodge has them brain-washed. They cannot step out of the matrix. They are caught in the Cummins-Love-Fest program. PSD's are passing them everywhere on the road, and they have no clue. They cannot see the matrix, and it's Mother-Architect Daimler. Master program Dodge has them in it's evil grip, and Agent Ram is wailing on Neo-the-PSD-chosen-one who has come to free their behinds.

Marine Ironman

 

Ironman: Dodge has them brain-washed.

Right back at ya. You, my not so good friend, have been sucked into the Ford bias continuum. Not to mention the V-8 epidemic of "hey it packs the most powerful punch in a light duty package therefore it has the better quality and is superior in every conceivable way." Just remember, whatever is faster is better. Wait I don't have to tell you that you already know. Bigger also means better to I've heard.

You're talking to yourself again Ironman. That 1st gear argument is all in your head. I don't see anyone bragging about beating the Ford to what is it 4mph now? In actuality it is closer to 30 mph.

 

Obviously "we" are not the ones brainwashed since Ford sells way more diesels than Dodge. I doubt there are an "enlightened few."

 

GM sells more pickups than ford. I dont hear them trying to convince themselves its superior.
Ironman. Funny but ridiculous. Manuals deliver better economy. Get more of your engines energy to the ground. Are less problematic. Ford had to detune the tow haul mode on a lot of engines. Neuter it if you will. Some like it better. Most hate it. You cant detune a manual.
Autos have their place. They are by no means better.

I was unaware of the exhaust brake issue. I never tried to put one on my truck. The shop put em on the dodges so I figured all was good. The pre 98s needed heavier exhaust springs and the autos were expensive to prep for an exhaust brake. You also needed a controller to lock up the torque converter while deceleration. It could be done. It just costed money. Too bad they never figured out the grade braking.

 

GM sells more pickups than Ford, but neither GMC nor Chevrolet do individually. Until GM stops pretending that they are completely different vehicles Ford is still the best selling truck. Of course, this has nothing to do with our PSD vs Cummins topic.

 

Heretic, check your owners manual. I'm just passing on the facts to you.

 

No, GMC and Chevrolet put together do NOT outsell Ford, Ford sold (as of June this year) 432,969 trucks. GM and Chevy together sold 421,277. That's not more than Ford.

 

You must have missed the point that I DID prove, the fact that a V8 will rap out quicker than a I6- nice try though. I didn't say my 302 was more powerful, and wouldn't say that because it isn't.
Scott

PS Ironman, your post with the pics was the funniest thing I've seen in a while!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!