OK guys, you want to talk PSD vs Cummins, post here. Let's keep this thread on the subject and let the "other" thread die. It has nothing to do with this comparison.

Let's keep this debate civil. Facts only please, not emotional or inflammatory posts. If you can't do this, don't post in this thread (it is actually in the guidelines for this forum anyway).

Maybe someone could start by posting the technical specifications for both engines.

 

Cummins 600 Turbo Diesel
325 hp @ 2900 rpm
600 lb-ft torque @ 1600 rpm

Ford Power Stroke
325 @ 3300 rpm
560 lb-ft torque @ 2000 rpm

GM Duramax
310 hp @ 3100 rpm
590 lb.-ft torque @1600 rpm

 

I think we're all pretty familiar with those specs by now. I was hoping to have more detailed information such as engine weight, dimensions, fluid capacities, etc.

wilbur_01, what truck(s) do you drive?

 

Of all the threads i have read on this topic, the thread will come to one conclusion(not necesarily my opinions) The Cummins (cep for FordLariats opinion) is a good strong motor but Ford offers a way better over all truck. Dodges and Chevy's are POS's and Ford will some day own the worlds market in vehicles.

 

I know, I'm just trying to kill the other off-topic thread. Most of the people who are posting in there now haven't even read the whole thread and it's pointless. I figured I'd start a much shorter pointless thread!

 

The current PSD displaces 363 cid and has a cylinder bore of 3.74 in and a stroke of 4.13 inches with a 18.0:1 compression ratio (info received from International Engine website). The long stroke of this engine is responsible for all of that great torque at low RPM. A plus for the PSD is the addition of two more cylinders. That equates to an additional two power strokes per two revolutions of the engine. In my book, that means more power on demand!

The Cummins engine displaces 359 cid. Unfortunately, I could not find the specs on the stroke/bore of the Cummins powerplant (the Cummins website is not surfer friendly when looking for tech specs). Obviously the bore will be bigger, but what of the stroke? If anyone finds this info let me know.

So what we have here are two engines of nearly equal displacement. The Cummins has 6 power strokes per two revolutions of the engine and the PSD has 8. it is no secret that the more power strokes per rev that you have will create a more continuous flow of power. Why do you think Ferrari and Lamborghini put V-12's in their cars? To get gobs of power out of a smallish 4.0l engine.

So regardless of the truck the engine is in or reliability, the PSD is probably the better choice when it comes to smooth stump pulling power IMO. Now if Ford can just correct this computer problem...

 

Wasn't there a comparison lately where the PSD spanked both the Cummins and the Duramax??

I have not driven a 6.0 or the Cummins 600, but from the Cummins HO's and the 7.3's that I have driven, at highway speeds it is no contest. I think the PSD wins, hands down. With the PSD acceleration is dang-near instantaneous. You want to go from 65 to 75? Blip the throttle and you are there. The Cummins have seemed almost out of breath at those speeds.

 

Only in the minds of Cummins owners. The Cummins has never beat the PSD in a head to head comparison in both the 555 and 600 versions.

 

I never said that the Cummins isn't a strong engine. I said it's not the most durable, not the strongest and definitely not the motor that people make it out to be.

 

Number of Cylinders is not in and it's self mean more HP. You still need to swing all that extra mass that requires more HP. The only reason to have a V10-V12 is a simple way to design a lower and more compact engine. Also the pistons are the size of tea cups when compared to a V8.

It's a known fact In-Lines will produce more torque and less top end. If you pull stuff then Top end is worthless, What you want is low end pulling power. I still laugh when people say I got "What ever and it goes 0-100 In what ever seconds" Who the hell cares you want to go fast Buy a Crotch rocket for 12k and you can beat any car or truck on the road "Even a Saleen" and smile as you drive by it saying 400k car got eaten by a 12k bike.

 

Right, but when do you start needing top-end? If you're just towing in the field, then all low-end is good, but if you're towing a heavy load for thousands of miles, then you're going to want something for the highway. I think that being a V8 makes the engine naturally rev higher and gives the engine a better torque curve, and the better drivetrain of the Ford (manual or automatic) makes more useable power than the Dodge. If all you are doing is pulling and getting the load moving, then you only need low-end, but if you want to seriously work in your truck, then you're going to need some top-end, too.

 

"The Cummins has never beat the PSD in a head to head comparison in both the 555 and 600 versions."

That's what I said. The PSD spanked them both!!!

 

Many people are not that happy with the newer Cummins. While it's true that the newer, some find ugly, Dodge truck may be in part the problem, many find that the newer electronically controled Cummins just doesn't pull like it should. I believe it's the emissions controls programed into the electronic fuel injection system. The old 12 valve Cummins with the inline mechanical fuel injection pump will out pull the Cummins 600 and the 555. The older mechanical fuel system Cummins (pre 24 valve) was only factory rated at 440 ft-lbs of tourqe, but the older Cummins was easily and cheaply turned up, and most are. Just the addition of a number 10 fuel plate increased the output to 640 ft-lbs and 285 HP. Then there's; re-setting the pump timing, different governer springs, a different turbo nozzle, screwing down the waste gate....and so on.. Many, if not the majority of the 12 valve Cummins out there have had some, or most of these mods done. With the electronically controled 24 valve and newer motors, about all you can do is buy a chip. The Dodge cummins reputation is really based on the mechanical injection pump trucks of the past.

By way of comparison in dealing with the electron fuel system bugs. A friend of my brother's had a new PSD that was just performing terrible and getting bad fuel milege. His old 7.3 PSD out performed it. He took it to International, instead of to a Ford dealer, and the IH tech reprogrammed the brain with spectacular results. I think the newer PSD is also handicapped by programed in emission controls. However, that thing runs like a million bucks now. It's suppossed to putting out 600 ft-lbs now, according to IH. At least we know the electronics of the PSD can be tampered with for an improvement. Pick up truck dealers (read Ford and Dodge) don't usually have people on hand that know that much about diesels and diesel performance, and they don't really know how to properly tune diesels.

We just took delivery of a an 04 F350 cab and chassis, PSD. It has the 6.0 with a six speed manual transmission. We havn't had time to fully evaluate it yet, but there's been no computor problems. It out pulls both my brothers 03 Cummins 555, and my other brothers 01 24 valve HO, but it doesn't out pull the old 12 valve Cummins. The old 12 valve has never really been outpulled by anything yet. It has a #10 plate, and nozzle, and is making more than 35 psi of boost.

 

I believe it is what you want to think of the motors to most people, i.e. I like fords, chevy, dodge; so thats the best engine.) This is how I see alot of people uphold their thinking on this subject. Myself I like the Cummins I have 2-04's 3500s I just traded older models in for, and a 98 3500 that now has 350000 miles, and has only needed regualar maintance, 1 fuel solenoid, and 12 sets of tires. Everyone else in my family has powerstrokes a total of 11. All of the trucks do what they are meant to do pull, pull, and pull. I will admit that the powerstrokes will run off and leave the goats at top-end, but getting there the goats hold their own. We live in Upper Northeast Tennessee, so with all the hills and curves the speed isn't need. Running to stockyards all over the country, the powerstrokes will run off and leave me, but I make it up on the mountains. And yes the Fords and the Dodges both have things go wrong with them, so many mechincial parts moving sometimes things are going give. What I don't get is people buy a brand new ton truck go out and drop a grand or more on performance parts that ain't needed, if the truck can't do it from the factory they make bigger trucks. And you can tell that the alot of this trucks are going to grocery trucks, alot of them on lots are all leather, autos, with 3.73 rearends, and huge prices tags. Hard enough farming for a living then having to shell out 40+ grand on a truck, just cause so big exec. wants a big truck.

 

Yea. that's pretty techincal.
I'm not sure which world you live in. But last time we checked the Duramax owned about 35% of the diesel market - up from about 3% before the Duramax. From what I've seen the cummins market has stayed relativily the same. So who's market do you think they are taking. From everthing I've seen (No dmax's on dealer lots and order dates seem to be lengthening) and the initial 6.0 problems (which may or may not still be lingering) I'd say that's more a biased opinion more then a technical fact.

P.S.
Do you know who is currently the owner of the world market in automobiles. I'll give you 2 hints.
It's not Ford
It's not Chrysler either