To be honest guys, I don't see where the problem in understanding is.....Unless this fella has little to no real world experience with vehicles. V8 outperforms I6 in any situation, gas or diesel. I have a 300 and a 302 and the differences are exactly as you've described- the I6 simply can't rap out as fast as the V8, or a V6 for that matter. Whatever the reason, that's how it is! Don't get me wrong, 300 is strong as heell but I just wanted to prove a point....
Scott

 

The confusion lies in perception. They think that since the I-6 design is used in most big rigs then it must be better for their truck. These guys forget that a 1-ton truck is a light duty truck and seem to forget about the transmissions that the big rigs have mated to their huge I-6 diesels. I think they also forget how slow the big rigs accelerate. There's a reason that the V design is so popular in light duty vehicles, it works. Big rigs won't start using the V design anytime soon, but the application is entirely different. Anyway..........

 

I agree completley. I took a buddys PSD auto out 3 days ago in the country side with a lot of hills and turns and whatnot. I was very unimpressed. I dont think disels do well with autos. Id be going up a steep hill like a 9% grade and the truck is doing great pulling the hill good going about 2000RPMs or so and all of a sudden it jumps down a gear and the engine is turning 3000RPMs when it didnt need to. Its a pain I hate the control you lose with an auto If I floor it I want it to accerlate properly, not jump down 2 gears and redline. I was consdiering converting my old 66 to an auto but Im leaving it the way it is Im am really disappoinated with autos. In fact it really irrateed me all the stupid downshifting and high revving the auto made the PSD do. I drove a standard PSD and an auto PSD and there is no question which one works better with the engine. The standard is great with the PSD, lots more power you can feel too.

 

You didn't prove any point though because you're wrong. My very good friend owns a 302 in a 96 F-150 short box but its basically brand new because of how little he drives it(60,000 miles on the odometer). He also meticulously maintains it. My mother's 2003 4.0 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo I-6 matches it at the least and he personally said the Jeep smokes his(I let him drive the Jeep when I borrowed it). Remember you said "any" situation and even though the Jeep is 7 years newer, it is a 242 compared to a 302 and the curb weights of both vehicles are nearly identical(the Jeep weighing 100 lbs more). That particular V-8 feels very underpowered and my friend who has owned it for 5 years says the same thing. Must be gearing prevailing here again.

 

IRONMAN: Why? The 0.69 4th gear of the 48RE is gonna give you more speed than the 0.73 6th gear of the NV5600. Perhaps you want a 1st gear-only test, so you can use the 5.63 1st gear of the NV5600? Here would be the headline:

DODGE WINS 5MPH tow-contest!!


One reason I feel the NV5600 is better than the 48RE is that your power is more usable. You can keep it in its optimum power range for longer. Once you get to 3000 rpm in the cummins where your torque curve drops, simply switch to the next gear to keep in the 1600-2900 rpm "optimum" power range. Since the power is delivered at such a low rpm that its virtually unusable for Ford advocates, I figured you would have spotted this right off the bat. Now I know what you're going to say, the manual is geared different so the Ford with the torqshift actually beats it worse in acceleration than if it were up against the 48RE... the thing is I don't care about winning against the Ford... I care about towing, driveability, and other practical scenarios.

By the way I laughed so hard on that dodge wins 5mph tow-contest bit that I nearly choked... thanks for the laugh.

 

Ahh shucks ironman. After a sweet post like that I almost feel like give you a noogie.
Ok the response time to get an engine from low revs to high revs is called transient response time. Yes. Im pretty sure your right the 6.0 will climb faster. It has to. Because the 5.9 makes its power sooner. You see the trade off.
I mentioned a few posts back that I used to hang out at an uprate shop. Ive driven a 600hp cummins and a 450hp powerstroke. I know how they perform.

BTW if you have a governer and you have enough torque to propel the vehicle that fast. Then a .69 will travel at a higher speed than a .73. So Im not sure what you mean by that.

Ive mentioned it before. I dont like most of cummins engines. I like most of intl better. I dont like dodges. I like fords better. I just think the 5.9 is a great engine. Coming from oodles of 300s has left me with a lasting impression of the durability and driveability of an I6. If the engine wasnt made by intl I wouldnt be driving the truck Im driving today.

Dodge has the best manual on the market and it goes well with the cummins engine.

The reason big rigs use I6s. Fuel economy. The reason big rigs have so many gears. Very narrow powerband. Imagine if you ran out of juice at 1800 rpms with your psd. Youd want an extra gear or two if you were towing at gross.

I raced a tractor truck. They aint slow by any means. When they arent draggin around a trailer that is.

johnsdiesel. Not just for big rigs. Every other engine intl makes is and I6. Same with duramax. The only v8s they make is for pickups. And I think due to consumer misconceptions and packaging constraints. Ive never bought the truck with the most hp. Never needed it. I need something reliable for work. That would deliver good economy. So I have often opted for inline 6s. They are generally bullet proof. In my many many miles. Ive never so much as pulled a head off of any of em. Most of em with well over 300k on the clock. A lot can be said for maintanence. I change my oil religiously. I could not have done this with as many v8s. No way in hell.

Ironman. Your touching on it but not really explaining why its so important to rev high. Why its so important to have more revolutions in a certain gear. It was one of the first things I posted in the Long long thread. It was disputed heavily but we have found are way back to it. The only difference is your the one saying it this time. Back to taking advantage of gearing. Which I thought I explained quite well. Overly simplistic but understandable.

 

Just wondering if anyone is tired yet

 

Yes!!! And I've been accused of arguing with a post.

 

Ladies,

It's obvious. No one here cares for a technical discussion or analysis of PSD vs. Cummins, or to delve into understanding why the PSD pulls Dodges' pants around their ankles on these tow tests. I've noticed the recurring themes in the ranting myths:

MYTH-1: I like my low-end torque, and with my standard the Cummins is the best package for towing.
FACT: Either the PSD/TS or the Cummins/48RE is better for towing, especially with a 4.10 rear. Check your manufacturers recommendations.

MYTH-2: I like my superior inline designed Cummins, it has big beefy piston-rods and stuff like that. It will go a million miles.
FACT: For light-duty trucks, a V-engine gives more options, wider power-band, and more flexibility for towing light weights (~25K lbs arena). The limiting factor for trucks is not engine-rebuild ... it's longevity of the rest of the truck. The V-s are stout enough for their intended purpose.

MYTH-3: I like my Cummins because my cousin Billy-Bob has a PSD, I drove it, and it sure sucked. A turtle out-ran it one day going up a 1/2 degree slope with no load. Diesels just aren't right for vehicles anyway, and my hiney get's an itch when I see an automatic transmission.
FACT: The dueling-banjos song was written for you. Ford/PSD owners are generally a blend of down-to-earth, practical people, who bother to care to own the very best, and use their knowledge to bring more sophistication to the truck-owning community.

I'm still amazed ... just dumb-founded ... jaw-is-hanging-open ... that anyone, with a straight face can claim the Cummins-with-standard is still the best towing package. Maybe you will get taken seriously on the Dodge\Standard Tranys forum ... but no where else. Back in 1997 I may have been duped into buying a Dodge, and she's done me good ... but at LEAST I was not deprived of enough brain cells as to think that there was something better than an Auto-with-4.10 rearend to do the job. Come on. I know. And Ford owns Cummins, too, right?

Dodge-Cummins-Standard - The Great Internet Towing Hoax

I figured calculations and analysis would not go over well, in an attempt to make the discussion technical. Ladies ... you may begin ... whine away ....

THE CUMMINS LOVE SONG (so the ladies can sleep peacefully):
Wo! I feel good, I knew that I wouldn't of
I feel good, I knew that I wouldn't of
So good, so good, I got you

Wo! I feel nice, like sugar and spice
I feel nice, like sugar and spice
So nice, so nice, I got you

The Ironman

 

You aint convinced me yet. But keep up the good work.

 

I was laughing nearly the whole time I was reading that. Thanks again.

 

Then you will never be convinced. All the facts have been presented and now matter how you look at it the PSD has the advantage.

 

Understanding your screen name will help...............
......................................
.....................
.........
..to know you never will

 

Ford & PSD win another independent evaluation:

http://horsecity.com/stories/111502/...eview_KS.shtml

Included on this one are comments matching my previous assertions that the PSD is quiter, it locks up in any of the 5 gears (eliminating Heretic's 1932 auto-transmission problems), was able to accelerate in all 5 gears going up-grade.

This guy even explains a detailed scenario on how the Allison and TorqShift autos prevent operator error in missing a gear coming downhill (the tow-modes lock the shifting for certain conditions) ... a situation which can be life-threatening for Dodge-Standard drivers. I.e. ... for safety reasons .... do not buy a Dodge-standard, you may kill yourself & family on the next trip through the mountains. I saw this photo once of a Dodge hanging by it's trailer & hitch off the edge of a cliff. Must have been a manual transmission.

Another safety tip from ... The Ironman
(friends don't let friends drive manual Dodges or take kids without car-seats)

 

I could make equal derogatory comments about all the automated computer engineering taking over driver input if you would like. Airliners are switching to almost completely automated control now. The pilot pushes a button to take him to the height he wishes and pushes another button for the pitch of the plane and lahdeedah its like magic the computer does everything. They aren't even teaching manual aeronautic control anymore. I heard this directly from an Alaskan Airlines pilot.

Obviously you would rather rely on computers for safety but I would rather rely on my own driving competence. An extreme example is rocketships, if one of the hundreds of computer chips fail the ship crashes in a towering flame. God forbid I forget to clap twice, click the blinkers left left right, tap the brake pedal, and give the voice recognition code. I don't like vehicles that turn the windshield wipers on when it senses a drop of rain. I don't like not being able to turn my lights off when I pull into someones driveway late at night. You do what you like I'll take my chances and go with the manual dodge.