PSD vs Cummins
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, AK
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
The Cummins doesn't take advantage of the torque because the automatic transmission is nothing compared to the Torqshift. If you have a manual transmission then you don't have torque multiplication and therefore the PSD is actually producing more low RPM torque at the rear wheels.
We have already went over the Ford vs. Dodge autos and really hammered it in how much better the Torqshift is. Everyone already knew that and personally I never really cared because I would never even consider buying a brand new truck with an auto. Lets compare standard vs. standard now please.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 1
From: Denton,TX
L.H., I'm talking about the PSD Torqshift vs Cummins manual. There is torque multiplication at low RPM with an auto that isn't there in a manual transmission. My point is that auto vs auto the PSD wins and auto vs manual the PSD actually has more torque because of torque multiplication.
Manual vs manual the Cummins has a slight low end advantage, but the torque curve of the PSD will give it a slight advantage over the Cummins. Also, someone posted recently that the Dodge tranny isn't even rated to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque. So much for mods!
Manual vs manual the Cummins has a slight low end advantage, but the torque curve of the PSD will give it a slight advantage over the Cummins. Also, someone posted recently that the Dodge tranny isn't even rated to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque. So much for mods!
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Yes but that multiplication comes at a price. Why would you compare auto vs manual? They both make autos. They both make manuals. Compare em seprately. A 6 speed camaro is faster than an auto camaro. Why? Autos suck. Well they waste engergy.
In diesels its different. You lose your boost when you shift a manual. So autos become faster. Doesnt mean they are better. If your towing heavy. Id recommend a stick. They deliver better fuel economy.They are more reliable too. And cheaper.
In diesels its different. You lose your boost when you shift a manual. So autos become faster. Doesnt mean they are better. If your towing heavy. Id recommend a stick. They deliver better fuel economy.They are more reliable too. And cheaper.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 1
From: Denton,TX
Originally Posted by Flash
The Cummins engine is speced in light and medium duty trucks, the PSD is not.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
Manual vs manual the Cummins has a slight low end advantage, but the torque curve of the PSD will give it a slight advantage over the Cummins. Also, someone posted recently that the Dodge tranny isn't even rated to handle 600 ft/lbs of torque. So much for mods!
As for mods that little nv5600 handles 1000lb ft. It is the toughest tranny on the market when it comes to uprates.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 1
From: Denton,TX
In the past I was always partial to manual transmissions. My current truck has a ZF-5. With all of the effort being put into automatic transmissions like the Torqshift, my next truck will be an automatic, although that may be quite some time from now. My wife can't drive a manual which normally makes me happy, because she won't drive my truck. On 1000 mile trips though it gets old real quick.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, AK
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
Yes it is. You can get the PSD, the 5.9 Cummins, or the 7.2 Cat in the F650/750. At that point the Cummins and PSD seem meaningless. Cat is the only way to go in an F650/750.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Ironman. Where did you see that the torqueshift was standard.
http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...20/section/all
This has it listed as a 1400 dollar option. It specifically says the 6 speed manual is standard.
http://www.intellichoice.com/reports...20/section/all
This has it listed as a 1400 dollar option. It specifically says the 6 speed manual is standard.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 1
From: Denton,TX
Originally Posted by DieselDonor7.3
Yes it would seem so. The F650's are way awesome but they are really unsuitable for the general pop. and whats the msrp? The big 3 make from the 1500 to the 3500 and mass produce them for the general purpose of the general population. Most people don't NEED an F650 for personal use. I can see general contracting and construction companies using them for business, but the big toys are usually towed with a semi anyway. Aren't the 650s and 750s mostly used by towing companies?
L.H., you are correct, the Torqshift is an option although you'll be hard pressed to find a 6-speed at a Ford dealer unless you order it.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, AK
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
My point was simply that in that size truck both the PSD and 5.9 Cummins become irrelevant. With the Caterpillar option why would you want the other two?
L.H., you are correct, the Torqshift is an option although you'll be hard pressed to find a 6-speed at a Ford dealer unless you order it.
L.H., you are correct, the Torqshift is an option although you'll be hard pressed to find a 6-speed at a Ford dealer unless you order it.
Thread Starter
|
Post Fiend
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,324
Likes: 1
From: Denton,TX
Originally Posted by DieselDonor7.3
On the Caterpillar note, yes I agree. Just the thought of owning one makes me giddy. On the Torqshift note, well like you guys said there is no benefit to having a manual on the PSD since the auto is so advanced. The Cummins on the other hand has no benefits in having an auto since it is proven less reliable, and less able to handle the torque compared to its own manual transmission option.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, AK
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
I agree, but PSD/Torqshift vs Cummins/manual is not even close. The PSD has a huge advantage in that scenario. That's why I've been saying that Dodge needs to come up with an automatic transmission that competes with the Torqshift and Allison.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 1
From: Everett, Wa
Originally Posted by Logical Heritic
Yes but that multiplication comes at a price. Why would you compare auto vs manual? They both make autos. They both make manuals. Compare em seprately. A 6 speed camaro is faster than an auto camaro. Why? Autos suck. Well they waste engergy.
In diesels its different. You lose your boost when you shift a manual. So autos become faster. Doesnt mean they are better. If your towing heavy. Id recommend a stick. They deliver better fuel economy.They are more reliable too. And cheaper.
In diesels its different. You lose your boost when you shift a manual. So autos become faster. Doesnt mean they are better. If your towing heavy. Id recommend a stick. They deliver better fuel economy.They are more reliable too. And cheaper.
All this is because of torque multiplication. The only way to muliply torque with a manual is to slip the clutch. With the lockup converters that comes with the newer trannys and computers that tie the engine and tranny togther the auto is a much better choice than manuals today. Who would of thought that an auto could provide engine braking.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by tmyers
You know at one time you where correct but not anymore. Recommend a stick all you want but even the Dodge rates there auto as having more tow capacity. A 6 speed Camaro may be faster on a road course or the salt flats but at the drag strip its not.
All this is because of torque multiplication. The only way to muliply torque with a manual is to slip the clutch. With the lockup converters that comes with the newer trannys and computers that tie the engine and tranny togther the auto is a much better choice than manuals today. Who would of thought that an auto could provide engine braking.
All this is because of torque multiplication. The only way to muliply torque with a manual is to slip the clutch. With the lockup converters that comes with the newer trannys and computers that tie the engine and tranny togther the auto is a much better choice than manuals today. Who would of thought that an auto could provide engine braking.
Sorry if you missed it. All transmissions multiply torque. The torque multiplication in the converter is shortlived. Its actually what destroys autos. If you slip the clutch its to get closer to peak hp. Not really necessary to slip the clutch on these new diesels. So much torque so soon. The torque multiplication in the torque converter is similar to slipping the clutch. It does enhance the torque at low rpm but is very wastefull at the same time. You sacrifice acceleration too due to this multiplication. Although it all sounds like its positive in reality its not. Very few torque converters are even 90% efficient. In reality most are more like 80%. Thats a pretty big waste of energy.
I am unable to locate specs which differentiate between the auto or the manual. Can you provide a link? I found where it says you can tow 23k with a 6 speed. I know you cant tow more than that with an auto. The payload is a little different because the manual weighs 200 lbs more. Its truly a medium duty manual.
Last edited by Logical Heritic; Aug 23, 2004 at 09:55 PM.