Methanol/Water Injection
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by PSD 60L Fx4
Ok, time to rack your brains guys...Bob, Kent, anyone else 
Is it safe to inject water pre-turbo? I have debating giving it a try; common sense would say that it would have more of an effect due to the fact that it would have a longer time in the intake tract to absorb heat...but
Could it puddle in the intercooler (and if it did, would this be a bad thing?)
Would running water through the turbo compressor do have any short or long term effects?
I am talking a low-methanol, non-volatile mixuture here by the way, not my infamous 60/40 mix
Don't care to have the turbo and pedestal come in the cab with me 
The reason I am asking is that propane is injected pre-turbo to get a better mixture, just wondering if the same thing would apply with water...
Is it safe to inject water pre-turbo? I have debating giving it a try; common sense would say that it would have more of an effect due to the fact that it would have a longer time in the intake tract to absorb heat...but
Could it puddle in the intercooler (and if it did, would this be a bad thing?)
Would running water through the turbo compressor do have any short or long term effects?
I am talking a low-methanol, non-volatile mixuture here by the way, not my infamous 60/40 mix
Don't care to have the turbo and pedestal come in the cab with me The reason I am asking is that propane is injected pre-turbo to get a better mixture, just wondering if the same thing would apply with water...
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From: Dallas
The reason you inject post intercooler and as close to the manifold as possible is because the water can and will fall out and become liquid under certain conditions. If it is doing this in the intake where it can accumilate as liquid water, at some point the water volume will become such that it overflows the low section of the intake and the engine actually injests liquid water which is not compressible. This would instantly lock the engine, bending rods and so on....instant destruction!
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by PSD 60L Fx4
Pre turbo......post incooler Huh?
Bobs got ya covered.
You need pressure so you can atomize water into the smallest particles possible. Sending water through the intercooler defeats the purpose.
Also PSD…. water is not cooling the air coming in, it turns to steam which raises compression in the cylinder and lowers the EGT on exhaust.
Last edited by Maxium4x4; Oct 16, 2004 at 06:12 AM.
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by Maxium4x4
sorry PSD .....intercooler
Bobs got ya covered.
You need pressure so you can atomize water into the smallest particles possible. Sending water through the intercooler defeats the purpose.
Also PSD…. water is not cooling the air coming in, it turns to steam which raises compression in the cylinder and lowers the EGT on exhaust.
Bobs got ya covered.
You need pressure so you can atomize water into the smallest particles possible. Sending water through the intercooler defeats the purpose.
Also PSD…. water is not cooling the air coming in, it turns to steam which raises compression in the cylinder and lowers the EGT on exhaust.
The evaporation reduces the intake charge temperature.
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From: Ohio
Yep.....let me kick myself Bob.
With correct fueling, water and Alcohol ratios.......it does not reduce EGT's
It lowers the cylinder and head temps from premature detonation....but not EGT's
With correct fueling, water and Alcohol ratios.......it does not reduce EGT's
It lowers the cylinder and head temps from premature detonation....but not EGT's
Last edited by Maxium4x4; Oct 16, 2004 at 07:09 AM.
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From: Dallas
It reduces intake charge temperatures and EGTs.
I had never considered injecting pre turbo because of the risk. The water would be quickly vaporized so thre should be no effect on the turbo, it is stainless steel(it think). There are plenty of 100% humidity days we drive our trucks in that wouldn't be greatly different on the turbo.
I had never considered injecting pre turbo because of the risk. The water would be quickly vaporized so thre should be no effect on the turbo, it is stainless steel(it think). There are plenty of 100% humidity days we drive our trucks in that wouldn't be greatly different on the turbo.
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From: Hendersonville, NC
Originally Posted by Choctaw Bob
It reduces intake charge temperatures and EGTs.
I had never considered injecting pre turbo because of the risk. The water would be quickly vaporized so thre should be no effect on the turbo, it is stainless steel(it think). There are plenty of 100% humidity days we drive our trucks in that wouldn't be greatly different on the turbo.
I had never considered injecting pre turbo because of the risk. The water would be quickly vaporized so thre should be no effect on the turbo, it is stainless steel(it think). There are plenty of 100% humidity days we drive our trucks in that wouldn't be greatly different on the turbo.
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From: Ohio
Just picking your brain a little Bob. Where would you inject if not preturbo and why. The problem with high EGT starts in the combustion chamber in the use of water injection. In theory....don't quote me...hehehe.. with advanced timing and fuel, injecting water helps lower the combustion temp, keeping from predetonation or flash, hence cooler piston surface and head temps with lower EGT's....whew..follow me any? It takes more energy to heat water than fuel turning it from liquid to gas then back to liquid......
I know what I want to say just not sure how to say it. This is reverse enginering at its finest. I am trying to help not flame........I have been taken the wrong way at times.
I know what I want to say just not sure how to say it. This is reverse enginering at its finest. I am trying to help not flame........I have been taken the wrong way at times.
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From: stoneboro, pa
Originally Posted by PSD 60L Fx4
In other words, you think it would be safe to at least experiment with?
the sole purpose of H2O inj is to cool the intake charge. the only way to get a cooling effect is to have heat to take out in the first place. the intercooler does this also. if u spray preturbo in a intercooled system, the water evaporates right after the turbo from the heat created by compression of the charge. then as it goes thru the I/C the air is already cooled and the water falls out from the slowing down of the flow, and taking up precious flow space in the I/C. so the I/C now does nothing. in fact, u loose even more by the loss of flow.
injecting after the I/C allows the I/C do its job of taking some of the heat out, then the water chills it further as long as it is atomized well.
also, the WWF has methanol which will eat at the parts of the intake tract if allowed to puddle.
the only time water inj is good pre turbo, is in a non intercooled system.
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From: stoneboro, pa
Originally Posted by DTR
I have one question, though, for Big. I can't find the post, but you mentioned that you wired your pump to put out more pressure. How did you accomplish this? After doing this, has your pump stood up good or would I be better off getting a higher pressure pump?
Where are you guys getting your braided line from? There isn't any place close to here, and like the looks of the braided line.
For you guys that have the Predator and water, do you also run a larger exhaust? Was hoping to get by without having to replace my exhaust, but don't want to "choke" of my flow too much. Any thoughts?
DTR
Where are you guys getting your braided line from? There isn't any place close to here, and like the looks of the braided line.
For you guys that have the Predator and water, do you also run a larger exhaust? Was hoping to get by without having to replace my exhaust, but don't want to "choke" of my flow too much. Any thoughts?
DTR
just pull em off and wire the power and ground right to the 2 wires coming out of the motor at the other end. with it this way, u need to use a relay, but u really should anyway
i get my SS braided from summit, but i used -8AN and u can use MUCH smaller, and i suggest it, cuz when u run the tank dry it takes forever to prime it all back full thru the little nozzle. -4AN would be the best if u can get an adapter for the 3/8 pipe fittings in the pump outlet. if not, use -6AN. and def use braided, cuz the pump will put out well over 150psi.
and i have the quadzilla125 and water, and all i have is straight piped exh, K&N, and disc EGR. if u take out the muffler and put in a piece of pipe, ur exhaust will be very close to aftermarket expensive ones because the 04's already have a good exhaust. dont waste ur money. punch out the cat, put in the pipe and stick on a fancy tip if u wanna look pretty, but the stock system is FAR from "choking" ur truck
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by PSD 60L Fx4
In other words, you think it would be safe to at least experiment with?
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by Maxium4x4
Just picking your brain a little Bob. Where would you inject if not preturbo and why. The problem with high EGT starts in the combustion chamber in the use of water injection. In theory....don't quote me...hehehe.. with advanced timing and fuel, injecting water helps lower the combustion temp, keeping from predetonation or flash, hence cooler piston surface and head temps with lower EGT's....whew..follow me any? It takes more energy to heat water than fuel turning it from liquid to gas then back to liquid......
I know what I want to say just not sure how to say it. This is reverse enginering at its finest. I am trying to help not flame........I have been taken the wrong way at times.
I know what I want to say just not sure how to say it. This is reverse enginering at its finest. I am trying to help not flame........I have been taken the wrong way at times.
To answer your question, there is NO circumstance where I would inject water pre turbo because of the chance to accumilate liquid water in the intake system. If you want furthur explanation, read the book and thread.
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From: Ohio
Ok. I'll do some reading.
From what I have seen work, it is preturbo. You have to meet certain parameters before injecting the water. I have not witnessed a 6.0 injecting water....yet.
Thnaks for the reply Bob
From what I have seen work, it is preturbo. You have to meet certain parameters before injecting the water. I have not witnessed a 6.0 injecting water....yet.
Thnaks for the reply Bob