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Methanol/Water Injection

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Old Jun 3, 2004 | 12:23 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Choctaw Bob
I'm gonna smoke Adams next time if I can solve the traction problem.
Ahh the smell of burning clorox...<-- is that spelled right Tim?
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 12:57 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by twoballsleft
Ahh the smell of burning clorox...<-- is that spelled right Tim?
Now we use a product by the name of VHT. That is what the dragstrips spray down. That and successive burnouts, the line at the good tracks when they have been preped for a big meet will pull your shoes off if you walk across them.

I may try to find some 15" wheels. Then I can find some 31" tall drag slicks or drag radials that should hook this thing up. Traction bars are available should we encounter wheel hop.

If I can get a 2.0 or better 60' time, this truck should run a 12.70 @ 115 when I'm through. There are some doing even better now.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 01:41 PM
  #63  
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will 15s fit over the calipers? i have a set of 15x12 8 lugs.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 01:45 PM
  #64  
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Can you get them in the right load range for the heavy pickup ????
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 01:47 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Tim Lamkin
The traction problems are going to keep going up exponentially as you increase the HP, this is the dog chasing his tail. I have to get to Texas.
COME ON DOWN Tim !

My new house should be finished about the time it cools off here so we can get some DENSE air to run at the neat little 1/8th mile strip about 3 or 4 miles away from me !!

(but keep it quiet... don't want that Bob character finding out about it - then he'd just beat me )
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 01:51 PM
  #66  
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I'm not sure how the 6.0 EGR controls are set up. If they are doing boost pressure or turbo speed control with the VGT, then diconnecting the EGR valve is OK. If not, then things get worse with the egr valve closed at full load, because the EGR valve acts sort of like a wastegate.

As for diesel A/F ratios - a non-EGR engine would run somewhere around 25:1 at full load with boost pressure around 30psi. Stoichiometric is 14.5, so its a long way away. With EGR, you replace fresh air with exhaust, and run an equivalent A/F which can be as low as around 18:1 at full load. With a 16.5:1 compression ratio, and a power density of 40hp/liter, that puts firing pressure around 2700 psi (with boost pressure around 35-40 psi and compliant emissions).

It is true that injection timing can increase power with the same amount of fuel - to a degree. But without a chip, you can't advance injection timing. So water injection only serves to add mass flow (mass of water + cooler and denser charge) - and the more mass you can heat with burned fuel, the more power you will get until you add too much and suppress combustion. By the way, there is still research being done on emulsion (fuel+water) injection for emissions reduction.

Of course, the meth is added fuel as well as further increases in charge density, so more power.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:12 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by gbirky
I'm not sure how the 6.0 EGR controls are set up. If they are doing boost pressure or turbo speed control with the VGT, then diconnecting the EGR valve is OK. If not, then things get worse with the egr valve closed at full load, because the EGR valve acts sort of like a wastegate.

As for diesel A/F ratios - a non-EGR engine would run somewhere around 25:1 at full load with boost pressure around 30psi. Stoichiometric is 14.5, so its a long way away. With EGR, you replace fresh air with exhaust, and run an equivalent A/F which can be as low as around 18:1 at full load. With a 16.5:1 compression ratio, and a power density of 40hp/liter, that puts firing pressure around 2700 psi (with boost pressure around 35-40 psi and compliant emissions).

It is true that injection timing can increase power with the same amount of fuel - to a degree. But without a chip, you can't advance injection timing. So water injection only serves to add mass flow (mass of water + cooler and denser charge) - and the more mass you can heat with burned fuel, the more power you will get until you add too much and suppress combustion. By the way, there is still research being done on emulsion (fuel+water) injection for emissions reduction.

Of course, the meth is added fuel as well as further increases in charge density, so more power.
i thought the egr was closed at full load. and stoich is different 4 diff fuel densities. and meth ACTS as a timing advancment because it doesnt fire until the diesel does but burns faster, making the peak pressure in the cyl occur sooner than the slower diesel. istead of the delayed "flare-up", it is more of an explosion. this means more fuel can be burned w/ the same injector flow
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:16 PM
  #68  
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EGR is normally closed for cars at full load, but due to the tests required by EPA for compliance of on road heavy duty diesel engines, EGR is necessary at full load. True, the meth will advance the centroid of the firing pressure trace even though start of combustion timing is unchanged, and act as an overall timing advance and thus more power for the same amount of fuel - I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!
 
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Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:18 PM
  #69  
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As long as the cetane rating of the fuel is within the normal specifications for on-road diesel, stoichiometric A/F ratio is 14.5. Density doesn't matter as long as you inject the same weight of fuel.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:20 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by gbirky
EGR is normally closed for cars at full load, but due to the tests required by EPA for compliance of on road heavy duty diesel engines, EGR is necessary at full load. True, the meth will advance the centroid of the firing pressure trace even though start of combustion timing is unchanged, and act as an overall timing advance and thus more power for the same amount of fuel - I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!
glad i unplugged mine then haha hate the epa!
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:20 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by twoballsleft
Ahh the smell of burning clorox...<-- is that spelled right Tim?
O-sure ask me about spelling......remember I spell fish, Tooner,Tooner
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 02:24 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by jdadamsjr
COME ON DOWN Tim !

My new house should be finished about the time it cools off here so we can get some DENSE air to run at the neat little 1/8th mile strip about 3 or 4 miles away from me !!

(but keep it quiet... don't want that Bob character finding out about it - then he'd just beat me )
I have been in Texas in July and August; believe me you have air, thick enough to walk on and stiff enough that it is like hitting a brick wall at 100.

Now about that house, got a room Bob does not know about.
I will stay there.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 03:08 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by bighoss550
will 15s fit over the calipers? i have a set of 15x12 8 lugs.
They would never fit. The calipers clear the 16" wheels by 1/4". Back to the drawing board!
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 03:13 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by gbirky
As long as the cetane rating of the fuel is within the normal specifications for on-road diesel, stoichiometric A/F ratio is 14.5. Density doesn't matter as long as you inject the same weight of fuel.
We fiddle with the cetane rating by adding Power Service to the fuel.
 
Old Jun 3, 2004 | 03:17 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Tim Lamkin
I have been in Texas in July and August; believe me you have air, thick enough to walk on and stiff enough that it is like hitting a brick wall at 100.

Now about that house, got a room Bob does not know about.
I will stay there.
He was talking about a remote room....I remember, he called it an outhouse! He did tell you it was his Daddy Warbucks Country Home?

He is 5 miles from Kennedale 1/8 mile Drag Strip and 15 from The Motorplex 1/4 mile Dragstrip. Both are NHRA sanctioned tracks. The Motorplex is one of the top tracks in the country. They hold national events there.
 



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