stopped in to my favorite heavy-duty tire shop who work on a lot of big vehicles.
they were ready and able to install 6 8.25x20 tires on my Firestone RH-5 split rims... for about $1900 all the way around.
What they had in stock were essentially "military lug" style tires... not the best look for this vehicle.
They do have a cage for this work and did not seem to feel they were getting out of that business anytime soon.

Any good sources online for a highway style tire of this size?

I also got lucky and NAPA had the LH thread lug nut I trashed trying to remove it like it was a RH!

I'm now waiting for a couple of brake spring candidates to come in...

 

https://www.millertire.com/8.25-20-n...k-tire-14-ply/

https://www.lucasclassictires.com/82...FET-77516L.htm

https://www.universaltire.com/truck-...transport.html

 

• New tires don't make RH-5 rims safe to use.
• Using a cage, chain, or whatever doesn't make RH-5 rims safe to use.
• Inspection for rust/defects does not make RH-5 rims safe to use.
• Finding a shop that will assemble RH-5 rims does not make them safe to use.

RH-5 rims can fail catastrophically and split at any time, either when manipulated for service, by road conditions, or even just sitting static unprovoked. All I can say is the NHSTA with their recall recommendation, various court proceedings with their judgments, and the fact that no reputable tire shop will service them is all written in blood and should be respected and not glossed over. Many of us here have chosen to be responsible owners and operators and have addressed the issue for the safety of ourselves, those we share the road with, those who admire our trucks at events, and those who will care for the trucks in the future. I would address your rims first before spending $1900 on tires in the event that you find adequate rims that take a different tire type/size.

 

Sounds like I've had a time-bomb X 6 sitting outside my house for the 10 years it hasn't been been rolling (much) and a *rolling* time-bomb for the 10 years I had it on the road.
I knew they were called "widowmakers" but I thought that was at least *partly* hyperbole and mostly about the care required to work on them.

I'm afraid I'm at this forum's mercy here to help me find some replacement rims, I haven't even seen a full set of alternative rims come/go here and only occasional reports of folks who scored ones for themselves.

Now that I've gone to the trouble of getting it running well (and soon also stopping) it sounds like the only responsible thing to do is to leave it in-place and put it up on jack-stands and lower the air-pressure in the tires to near-zero?

If anyone has a line on some alternate rims or is ready to "bring a trailer" I don't see any good alternatives?

 

I guess I should have taken this advice more seriously when you offered it. I do truly appreciate all the advice here... I"m just frustrated to realize I really don't have a path-forward now that I've got it running (and soon to be rolling and stopping)!

 

Our member Buck5050, last I swapped texts, had a set of 22.5s. Name is Mark Buck. He lives in MT so there would be shipping. I’ll text him and ask him to drop by. Stu

 

Stu and I have been on crusade for what has to be over ten years to educate people about the dangers of the real WMs. It's gotten to the point I don't really care any more. Most people here will eventually head our warnings but there are many on the FB Ford truck pages who just blow you off when you mention the negatives of the WMs. The people who really get me are the "know-it-alls" who are macho and say stupid things like "I've been working on truck tires for 20 years, all you need is a strong log chain to wrap around the tire when when you're filling them" or "all you need is a strong tire cage, don't be a wuss." Neither of these types seem to realize the half the danger of these rims is the danger they pose to the general public once they are inflated and being driven down the road.

There are a few alternatives to the WMs, there are either relatively expensive or rather hard to find. Search Stu's posts and you'll find a few places that will either make a new set of rims with the proper snap rings or some places will take the center out of your WMs and weld them into safer rims, either will cost some good money. Another is to search older junk yards and look for older Dodge, International and Studebaker trucks with the same sized wheels and bolts patterns, these can be rather hard to find. A third, less desirable alternative is 19.5" tubeless wheels from a Dodge chassised RV. These wheels have smaller outside diameter and are rated for lighter loads. If you're really super lucky in the search of old junk yard you might be able to find a set of old Ford 22.5" wheels, they used them on buses way back then.

Enough said, I'll be getting back to not caring again.

 

Like Bob, I’ve gotten to point where I feel preachy rehashing this for new guys again and again. (It’s been a lot more than 10 years Bob.). So I really appreciate bmoran4 on this. Stu

 

With enough patients and sleuthing, I have been able to get a few sets of lock ring rims for $50 a wheel. International Harvester, Studebaker, Dodge that have the 5 on 8 bolt pattern and use these serviceable multi-piece split rims. This took some research effort and some convincing to sell just the wheels and not the whole truck, and then I actually had to remove go through the labor of removing the wheels in the field. Following that, there are the costs of dismounting the dry rotted tries that came on them, new tubes and tires, and of course, the optional costs of powder coating the rims so they look nice. It adds up, but is doable.

If you want to go tubeless, there are 22.5 and 19.5 single piece rims out there from some vehicles in the 80's such as Dodge/Winnebago motor homes that use the 5 on 8 bolt pattern. Finally, there are those on the forum who have gotten new rims from Wheels Now, American Wheel, OTR. They have 19.5, 20, and 22.5 options with the 5 on 8 bolt patterns, but some of those have a different look to them.

As to Stu and Bob for feeling preachy, please don't apologize. It would be a shame if someone got hurt because we all got tired and gave up evangelizing the dangers. Once informed, it is on them.

 

Mark texted me back and has sold his set. So it’s back to searching.

The other thing that Bob brought up was having a custom set built. Last I knew Les Schwab had a wholesale relationship with American Wheel Specialist of Kennewick, WA. Years ago I bought a set from them and know they are good folks. Other guys might speak up too with other custom builders they’ve used. Stu

 

I definitely appreciate all the advice and help here and don't want to be resentful of the warnings.

I'm on the cusp of "not caring" in my own way, which is not caring if this truck gets the kind of respect I felt it deserved when *I* rescued it 20 years ago. But I *do* still care, and this group makes it easier with the encouragement and advice. I got on this list early on (can't remember when I found it, but before 2010) and benefitted from much of the advice without weighing in much myself. The truck was really just a convenient way to avoid unloading my flatbed with a shovel, and a conversation-starter for me when I did my semi-local errands with collecting firewood (about 10 cords during it's useful life with me) and dozens of loads of manure and a similar number of woodchips from the viga yard. It always turned heads and got discussions going.

I finally decided to get it back on the road (and hopefully into someone else's hands) a few months ago. I couldn't revive my original login, so gave up and signed up again... some careful/thorough searching of the topics or content might lead me to finding it again. I think I reported the history of the truck when I brought it home (back around 2003) and made a modest attempt to find alternative wheels for it the first time I needed to replace a tube (slow leak)... maybe 2006, but didn't get the full sense of their danger then. The willingness/ability of the tire store to work on it gave me a false sense of security. I guess I assumed that if *they* hadn't killed themselves yet, or triggered their insurance or a lawsuit, that they must know what they are doing. I also understand they are a business trying to make a buck and are likely to cut corners and take risks for a profit where they dare, so are not the final word in such things.

I'm also dealing with the cognitive dissonance of having worked on and driven it all this time without being as fearful (respectful) as apparently is warranted. In general, a vehicle of this size and bulk and heft rolling down the road , or up on jackstands (or dumping manure in my garden) deserves extra respect independent of the wheels and being 75 years old doesn't reduce that any. As I get older (just turning 66) I just don't have the energy and focus to (properly?) worry about all those things and feel like I"m doing it safely or responsibly. Of course, the corollary is that I'm realizing that my past behaviour (as a brash youth) was pretty irresponsible, even though by many standards it wasn't particularly far out of line and I can't recount any actual time where I lost any of the less-than-good bets I took. Probably just got lucky.

There are times when I find even driving a vehicle on the highway the height of irresponsibility even though I've driven (easily) over a million miles in my life and had very few "close calls" and absolutely no incidents that involved significant physical damage to anything, much less other human beings or animals. What part of hurtling down the highway at 60 (or 80 for many)mpg just feet away from someone doing the same going the other direction isn't the height of lunacy (Huge amount of relative kinetic energy in those two vehicles)? I *have seen* a few too many highway accidents including at least one head-on. This for me is yet more cognitive dissonance, especially when I think about the many folks who do things like text while driving and drive under various influences (ranging from alcohol and narcotics to simple distraction or rage).

At least the hundreds of thousands of miles I put on a motorcycle (without anyone getting hurt) weren't as likely to cause significant harm to others as the ones I put on in my multi-ton cars and trucks! I do remember the one fast flat (blowout) I had on the freeway when I was about 20... I managed to get stopped and off the side of the road without losing control or colliding with anyone or anything... I sold my last bike well over a dozen years ago, and despite missing the wind in my beard and the wide-open views, the things that made it exhilirating now probably would just make me cold cold and irritable. Pretty soon I'll be sitting in my chair with folded hands... because everything else is starting to seem somewhere between risky and scary. To all you youngsters out there "don't get old, it is not for sissies!"

Of course, if I consider the huge amount of gasoline/diesel I turned into CO2, CO, NO and particulates in my lifetime, I cringe. And how many circumference inches of synthetic rubber did I turn into road-grime/dust along the highway or on nearby crops people might actually eat? Not to mention the air they breathed. It sure seemed like a good idea at the time (driving all over North America for one "good reason" or another).

(not?) To beat the horse more dead, nor trying to justify something stupid, but trying to relieve some of my cognitive dissonance:

The tire-store who offered me the $1900 deal had the set of "military lug" style tires in their back shed which maybe they were just trying to unload on me, but they came *with* what they showed to me and described as "split-rim liners". I'm not wondering if not *all* split-rims are equally dangerous? I'm wondering if the point exposed here is that the ones of our vintage and the class of them is what makes them so *acutely* dangerous? And add that many of them are likely much more rusted than the ones I know which come from the dry rocky-mountain west? Again, I'm not trying to talk myself into using them, just trying to sort out which part of the fear/shame I'm feeling is justified and which part isn't.

I'll follow up with Buck5050... one of the possible dispositions of this Truck may be to try to get it to my partner's nephew in NE (about an equal distance past where it started useful life in Greeley CO from me, and a lot closer to MT) who owns a repair shop and might be able to use it as a "rolling sign" for his business and maybe run local parades with it. His kids and own nieces and nephews are all still school age and engaged in those kinds of activities. Her brother-in-law has a gooseneck big enough to haul this on if her nephew comes down for it. I'm past wanting to haul that much weight that far, even if I had something bigger than a bumper-pull tandem.

There is a beautiful 20's Ford Dump sitting on a pedestal outside a nearby Landscaping/Garden center which might be the (next) best use of this old girl... then we really could lower the air pressure to something "safe" (more than zero, just enough to keep the tires in shape without weight on them?) . The old T has got wood spoked wheels which on first blush sound even more risky than these Firestones? Maybe just more prone to failure, not as much becoming a roadside IED?

I have been watching the RV ads on the off chance that someone is ready to unload a vintage Dodge-Chassis with the right rims, probably for what I'd have to pay to find just the rims otherwise? But then who would give the RV it's proper continued life? (or burial)?

I know I think (and worry) too much, and probably about all the wrong things! At least you guys won't have to worry about me rolling this truck much further than across my yard or onto a gooseneck hauler without resolving the wheel thing.

thanks again, some more (and also for the brake-spring references)... and indulging my free-associative ramblings and exploration of my guilt/shame/fear .

 

I will agree that staying in touch with Mark Buck might be your path to a solution. Mark has an incredible ability to find wheels in his area yards. You just missed on the set of 22.5s I mentioned because their buyer’s check arrived in the mail the day I texted him for you. If you are willing to go with the 19.5s he may even have better luck finding them. Stu

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-ih-truck.html

And now that I found *this* thread y'all are keeping alive, that helps give me hope.... I didn't realize there was a pro-active thread keeping up with possibles and near misses. I added my own 48 IH B6 possible find a mere 100 miles away. I haven't found a similar IH forum to this one to try to shop the chassis/engine/etc *without* the wheels to... anybody know of a good one?

I doubt the current owner will smile on me buying the truck and then *leaving the truck*. I really don't have a good way to haul it, though salvage yards might well haul it off for the scrap which hurts my heart.

$1600 for 6 wheels kinda hurts too, but I guess that would hurt less than the shrapnel the 6 IEDs my truck is lurking around waiting to hit me and my loved ones with... I'm trying to get OUT of the big truck business, not deeper in! If they happen to have righteous rubber (not new but not 40 years old like mine) it seems like a near bargain, but probably not.

 

Thanks!

The second link took me to what looks to be precisely the tire I was looking at in the back shed of the tire-store of reference, but they were "only" asking $200/each which makes me think that aside from looking plenty new, they may be "old stock" they couldn't move otherwise?

On reflection... I'm wondering if these firestone widowmaker-from-hell rims are pretty rare (in the grand scheme) and even the tire store like mine doesn't really understand their riskiness? If *most* of the split-rim old wheels out there are ultimately the safe(r?) lock-ring type, then maybe that is why they don't even know to wince when someone like me offers them the chance to rebuild a set of roadside IEDs for them? If you guys have some references to the NTSC safety studies maybe I can sort out for myself if this problem is specific to our vintage big Fords or if every old truck out there is as likely to be a danger-to-society? Or maybe this is already fully part of the lore I haven't tripped into yet?

Obviously they will make perfectly good steel to be dumped into the rebar-and-other-junk-steel recycle-stream. I'm wishing there were a sweet upcycle to put them to. My father was a totem-pole carver and old wheel-rims were his favorite mounting-base. He'd run long lag-bolts up into the base of the "Log" and stand them up freestanding or bury the rim in the dirt. He never had access to anything bigger than probably a 16" rim in his heyday. Being less-than-half the weight of a full rim seems promising for that use. Alas no more totem-poles are being carved in my vicinity...

 

Any truck tire shop will be familiar with the Firestone RH-5°. Just about every Ford and many GM big trucks of the 1950s/60s were so equipped. Dodge and IHC never used them. Studebaker was a mix. Today some shops choose to accept the risks after taking appropriate safety measures, cage use, etc. Most, however, won’t touch them for legal, insurance, and staff training reasons. While we talk circles around these wheels, in the real world they are seldom encountered anymore. The same applies to the solid/continuous locking ring styles (RH, RHP) that are safe to keep in use but require a knowledgeable tech to service. There are too few still out there in use for most shops to mess with.

If you want to dig into the history go to the archives of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and read they’re “status reports” going back to about 1970. In concert with NHTSA (did I arrange those letters right?) there was a recall effort that applied to the Firestone RH-5° disc type wheel and Goodyear K-28 demountable Dayton style rims that advanced through the government review stages until it was killed in 1980. What happened? Nothing I’ve found online says it clearly, but it’s obvious that industry lobbyists were at work here too. Politics changed in 1980 you’ll recall. The only material positive outcome of the recall effort was the 1972 industrial agreement to cease production of these wheel designs. Kelsey Hayes was the last to market the RH-5° in 1976. Stu