Ideas on problems starting?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Hate to break it to ya, but all that test does is confirm you are proficient at removing and reinstalling spark plugs. With the plugs removed, the starter's job is much easier without having to overcome any compression to spin the engine. Please see my earlier comment about the pointlessness of testing the starter at less than normal load. Last time it was at the parts store. This time it's bolted to your engine sans compression. It's the same basic thing. The ability to walk around a park on a Sunday afternoon is not a good way to determine who is capable of climbing Mt. Everest.
Big clue here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when the battery has been connected to the charger, the next start is perfect, right?
So that had us all thinking the slow crank fault was related to a charging issue, or a defective battery that can't hold a charge. I think we can safely rule out the battery, with this the third one? For charging, are you seeing approximately 13.5 when driving?
So if the battery itself is hopefully good (third time's a charm), and the charging system is holding around 13.5, what variable keeps changing?
My TheoryDuJour™: Radiant heat from those blasted headers affecting a marginal starter. When sitting at home, connected to the charger (talking about the truck, not you), the engine is obviously not running. That means no radiant heat from the blasted headers.
Drive into town, and now the blasted headers start cooking everything under the hood, just like they are designed to do. No wait, that's not by design, it just happens. That's why I keep referring to them as blasted headers. I've seen more problems causes by blasted headers, far outweighing any minor performance increase you might gain.
So let's say that poor starter was already marginal, and then some heat finishes it off. This was the original starter before you did the hi-torque swap, right? I'm assuming (Danger! Danger!) it was already old and tired at the time. High underhood heat from the blasted headers then causes the poor starter to heat up. Note the problem seems more common after sitting for about 10 minutes, which is due to the lack of airflow from forward motion and the radiator fan.
Thermal expansion can cause a marginal short (typically between windings) to become more solid, and next thing you know, the starter draws way more current than designed while delivering less torque. The outcome is the voltage from the (perfectly good) battery drops far too low under load, and at the same time, the starter can't spin the engine at normal starting speed.
How's that for a plan?
Consider a heat shield for the new starter, to protect it from the blasted headers. I'm not a big fan of the blanket type that wrap around the starter. Even though they reflect most ambient heat, I think they also trap any internal heat. I much prefer a sheet metal baffle, with self-adhesive thermal barrier on the side facing the blasted headers. That leaves the starter in free air for maximum cooling, while still deflecting heat from the blasted headers. The only trick is how to secure the baffle if there are no bolt holes nearby that can be utilized.
Big clue here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when the battery has been connected to the charger, the next start is perfect, right?
So that had us all thinking the slow crank fault was related to a charging issue, or a defective battery that can't hold a charge. I think we can safely rule out the battery, with this the third one? For charging, are you seeing approximately 13.5 when driving?
So if the battery itself is hopefully good (third time's a charm), and the charging system is holding around 13.5, what variable keeps changing?
My TheoryDuJour™: Radiant heat from those blasted headers affecting a marginal starter. When sitting at home, connected to the charger (talking about the truck, not you), the engine is obviously not running. That means no radiant heat from the blasted headers.
Drive into town, and now the blasted headers start cooking everything under the hood, just like they are designed to do. No wait, that's not by design, it just happens. That's why I keep referring to them as blasted headers. I've seen more problems causes by blasted headers, far outweighing any minor performance increase you might gain.
So let's say that poor starter was already marginal, and then some heat finishes it off. This was the original starter before you did the hi-torque swap, right? I'm assuming (Danger! Danger!) it was already old and tired at the time. High underhood heat from the blasted headers then causes the poor starter to heat up. Note the problem seems more common after sitting for about 10 minutes, which is due to the lack of airflow from forward motion and the radiator fan.
Thermal expansion can cause a marginal short (typically between windings) to become more solid, and next thing you know, the starter draws way more current than designed while delivering less torque. The outcome is the voltage from the (perfectly good) battery drops far too low under load, and at the same time, the starter can't spin the engine at normal starting speed.
How's that for a plan?
Consider a heat shield for the new starter, to protect it from the blasted headers. I'm not a big fan of the blanket type that wrap around the starter. Even though they reflect most ambient heat, I think they also trap any internal heat. I much prefer a sheet metal baffle, with self-adhesive thermal barrier on the side facing the blasted headers. That leaves the starter in free air for maximum cooling, while still deflecting heat from the blasted headers. The only trick is how to secure the baffle if there are no bolt holes nearby that can be utilized.
If there was mechanical interference it would show up with the plugs pulled.
The engine would slow crank even with the plugs pulled if it dragging down the starter down the engine should still spin for several revolutions after the starter is released. And it would be easier to hear if there was binding IE like the CHEVS do if the starter is set to deep in to the fly wheel.
As for the heat soak. From what I recall he is getting slow crank even on a cold engine so I pretty sure that is ruled out.
If it is slow cranking only on a hot engine then heat soak is a possibility for sure.
Starter heat shields for Fords are not common as it is not really issue with Fords.
You maybe could adapt a Chevy one to fit.
With what has been done the start circuit almost is ruled out.
The only question is the stater relay. And how good a contact it is making.
As it is currently used to switch feed power and was used to switch solenoid power.
If you had a thermal imager You can get em for your phone. Replicate slow crank on a cold engine with the coil wire pulled and image the start wiring an starter. Any where you get heat increases would show areas of high draw.
You pretty much are that point where normal diagnostics are not cutting it.
If you can not get slow crank with the coil wire pulled time to look at the ignition system. IE sticking or disconnected (In the dist) vac or mech advance.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,173
Likes: 1,173
I feel like a detective sometimes, trying to decipher exactly what has been said.
1) What is the status of the presently installed starter? Last I remember, it was the (used) original one from before the hi-torque conversion. Is that correct? Or have you already replaced it? If recently replaced, is the present one new or reman? Is it a Motorcraft or a Fling Dung brand?
2) Third battery, right?
3) With this latest battery, is my observation correct about hot starts (sometimes slow) vs. cold starts (always good)?
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Elder User
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5th starter , third brand name, 2 mini torque (late model) and 3 original style. I am currently still using direct drive, and this one is brand new, yes, fling dung.
I wouldn't mind the high dollaer micro torque starters like powermaster, but then again, I had two starters of that style and it didn't seem to make a difference. No, I'm not comparing powermaster to fling dung.
i can't find any "new" good versions of that old starter, all remanufactured ford motorcraft.
I can make a heat shield, but again, these are fender exit headers and wrapped. They come out the heads to the outside of the frame rail, not the other versions where they snug up tight to the starter. I won't retract on my previous statement though, I will try anything.
hard start happens hot, cold, fully charged, half charged, doesn't seem to matter.
i will replace ignition switch on Wednesday, and hopefully get recommendation for a starter to install this weekend. I want to agree that the starter is going bad, as it's logical that it's drawing entirely too much power, it's just hard to believe that 3 starters since starting this thread have been toast off the shelf brand new.
I wouldn't mind the high dollaer micro torque starters like powermaster, but then again, I had two starters of that style and it didn't seem to make a difference. No, I'm not comparing powermaster to fling dung.
i can't find any "new" good versions of that old starter, all remanufactured ford motorcraft.
I can make a heat shield, but again, these are fender exit headers and wrapped. They come out the heads to the outside of the frame rail, not the other versions where they snug up tight to the starter. I won't retract on my previous statement though, I will try anything.
hard start happens hot, cold, fully charged, half charged, doesn't seem to matter.
i will replace ignition switch on Wednesday, and hopefully get recommendation for a starter to install this weekend. I want to agree that the starter is going bad, as it's logical that it's drawing entirely too much power, it's just hard to believe that 3 starters since starting this thread have been toast off the shelf brand new.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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And if I'm visualizing this correctly, I should add a ground wire from one of the bolts holding on the starter to the engine block as a ground, correct? Basically a direct connection between starter and block.
This t-19 transmission doesn't have an aluminum bellhousing does it? If it did, and I know it's a cast iron case, Would that mean the only thing that grounds the starter to the block is 2 bolts?
This t-19 transmission doesn't have an aluminum bellhousing does it? If it did, and I know it's a cast iron case, Would that mean the only thing that grounds the starter to the block is 2 bolts?
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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Although I disabled the ignition twice while cranking for 15 seconds (load testing the starter) and showed no drop below 10 volts, should I do this more often? I did that at the beginning of the thread to check voltage loss while cranking. We have addressed problems since then that impact it greatly. It appears that my chances are about 1 in 5 for a slow crank, so I should do it again 3 more times?
should I do it in different stages of charge? I did the test those 2 times after sitting on a battery charger all night, so I'd assume they passed with flying colors. Now I can trust my alternator to charge my good battery, so can I do it now without a battery charger?
should I drive it to the gas station where it likes to crap out all the time, disable the ignition and check voltage while using a remote starter for 15 seconds?
in the whole time this thread has been opened, I've had a bad battery, or 2, a diode burned out on an alternator, and some wiring issues, as well as a slew of starters and solenoids, all of which were fixed and hopefully helped overall. But not 1 particular thing has changed its symptoms. Yes the battery wasn't charging and that's because it was failing because a diode burned out on the alternator, I feel like we're definitely fixing problems, but it seems to have no impact on the MAIN problem.
should I do it in different stages of charge? I did the test those 2 times after sitting on a battery charger all night, so I'd assume they passed with flying colors. Now I can trust my alternator to charge my good battery, so can I do it now without a battery charger?
should I drive it to the gas station where it likes to crap out all the time, disable the ignition and check voltage while using a remote starter for 15 seconds?
in the whole time this thread has been opened, I've had a bad battery, or 2, a diode burned out on an alternator, and some wiring issues, as well as a slew of starters and solenoids, all of which were fixed and hopefully helped overall. But not 1 particular thing has changed its symptoms. Yes the battery wasn't charging and that's because it was failing because a diode burned out on the alternator, I feel like we're definitely fixing problems, but it seems to have no impact on the MAIN problem.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Although I disabled the ignition twice while cranking for 15 seconds (load testing the starter) and showed no drop below 10 volts, should I do this more often? I did that at the beginning of the thread to check voltage loss while cranking. We have addressed problems since then that impact it greatly. It appears that my chances are about 1 in 5 for a slow crank, so I should do it again 3 more times?
should I do it in different stages of charge? I did the test those 2 times after sitting on a battery charger all night, so I'd assume they passed with flying colors. Now I can trust my alternator to charge my good battery, so can I do it now without a battery charger?
should I drive it to the gas station where it likes to crap out all the time, disable the ignition and check voltage while using a remote starter for 15 seconds?
in the whole time this thread has been opened, I've had a bad battery, or 2, a diode burned out on an alternator, and some wiring issues, as well as a slew of starters and solenoids, all of which were fixed and hopefully helped overall. But not 1 particular thing has changed its symptoms. Yes the battery wasn't charging and that's because it was failing because a diode burned out on the alternator, I feel like we're definitely fixing problems, but it seems to have no impact on the MAIN problem.
should I do it in different stages of charge? I did the test those 2 times after sitting on a battery charger all night, so I'd assume they passed with flying colors. Now I can trust my alternator to charge my good battery, so can I do it now without a battery charger?
should I drive it to the gas station where it likes to crap out all the time, disable the ignition and check voltage while using a remote starter for 15 seconds?
in the whole time this thread has been opened, I've had a bad battery, or 2, a diode burned out on an alternator, and some wiring issues, as well as a slew of starters and solenoids, all of which were fixed and hopefully helped overall. But not 1 particular thing has changed its symptoms. Yes the battery wasn't charging and that's because it was failing because a diode burned out on the alternator, I feel like we're definitely fixing problems, but it seems to have no impact on the MAIN problem.
You don'st even need your remote starter don't add variables. Replicate the slow crank and disconnect the coil wire, if slow crank goes away it's a timing issue.. It would not hurt to check the operation of the vac advance and mech advance to make sure both are function smoothly and not hanging up. If you are not sure how to do that just let us know. This is a no tools zero dollar check so before you go moving the ground check this stuff.
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Elder User
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Heck, I'll give it a shot after work tonight. Ill do it in the exact way I tested earlier today as to only have 1 variable.
I'll try it in a bunch of different conditions, cold, after I drive it a while, etc and try to replicate.
Just kinda odd that yes, we have won small battles, I feel like I'm still losing the war.
Im still wanting to make the heat shield and already have that small cable I made, I'm sure I can ground the starter no problem.
I'll try it in a bunch of different conditions, cold, after I drive it a while, etc and try to replicate.
Just kinda odd that yes, we have won small battles, I feel like I'm still losing the war.
Im still wanting to make the heat shield and already have that small cable I made, I'm sure I can ground the starter no problem.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Heck, I'll give it a shot after work tonight. Ill do it in the exact way I tested earlier today as to only have 1 variable.
I'll try it in a bunch of different conditions, cold, after I drive it a while, etc and try to replicate.
Just kinda odd that yes, we have won small battles, I feel like I'm still losing the war.
Im still wanting to make the heat shield and already have that small cable I made, I'm sure I can ground the starter no problem.
I'll try it in a bunch of different conditions, cold, after I drive it a while, etc and try to replicate.
Just kinda odd that yes, we have won small battles, I feel like I'm still losing the war.
Im still wanting to make the heat shield and already have that small cable I made, I'm sure I can ground the starter no problem.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,173
Likes: 1,173
Once again, I am totally confused. I've been trying to sort through exactly what has and hasn't been done, searching for clues, both big and small. We keep getting conflicting answers. If not conflicting, they at least don't seem to make sense. I'm sure you are getting frustrated, but we are only trying to help. Our (alleged) assistance is only as good as the information supplied to us. I implore you, in the kindest way possible, to please slow down and reply to each query as completely as possible, being aware we do not know all the fine details that you know. You will not offend any of us if you accidentally repeat something.
I am especially interested in exactly which components are presently installed, especially the starter. You've obviously done some swapping back and forth, but not all those details are making it back to us.
From message #262:
From #270:
From #274:
So please clarify, and take your time, do you still have the suspect Fling Dung Chinese starter installed?
How many starters total since this thread started? 3? 5? See where I'm getting at? Within one message, you said both 3 and 5. Of these starters, whatever the correct number may be, which were new and which were used? Of the new ones, what brands? Of the used ones, what were their histories, if you know.
Now I'm old (and cranky) so my memory isn't what it used to be, but I could
have sworn you recently mentioned switching from the new Fling Dung starter back to the pre-mod direct drive starter. If I'm not mistaken, the pre-mod starter was the one that had been installed for years, correct? If so, this pre-mod starter may have been old and tired, and thus also suspect. In the previous paragraph, I asked about the history of any used starter. Specifically, if this same starter had previously been installed in your truck, did it behave satisfactorily before the mod with the previously existing cables, starter relay, etc.? This bit of information is vital, because when you swapped it, I think you had already swapped a bunch of other stuff, too. The pre-mod and post-mod behavior of the same starter will provide a big clue if any of the mod work actually induced a new fault.
And to triple check, the starter that is currently installed (got lost keeping track of the parts swapping) is a brand new direct drive Fling Dung, right? When did you swap that thing in there? I must have missed that in the bedlam.
With all the talk of suspect Chinese parts, what made you want to go that route again? Sure, I'm busting your butt, but you've got to throw us a bone. Chinese parts can be crap, and many of us have experienced that. Sure, it's a lot of money to gamble, but I think a genuine Motorcraft (or other high quality name brand) starter is a safe bet by now. You've literally tried everything else. Way back at message #262, I thought you were going to do that, but it doesn't appear so.
I am especially interested in exactly which components are presently installed, especially the starter. You've obviously done some swapping back and forth, but not all those details are making it back to us.
From message #262:
From #270:
From #274:
5th starter , third brand name, 2 mini torque (late model) and 3 original style. I am currently still using direct drive, and this one is brand new, yes, fling dung.
it's just hard to believe that 3 starters since starting this thread have been toast off the shelf brand new.
it's just hard to believe that 3 starters since starting this thread have been toast off the shelf brand new.
So please clarify, and take your time, do you still have the suspect Fling Dung Chinese starter installed?
How many starters total since this thread started? 3? 5? See where I'm getting at? Within one message, you said both 3 and 5. Of these starters, whatever the correct number may be, which were new and which were used? Of the new ones, what brands? Of the used ones, what were their histories, if you know.
Now I'm old (and cranky) so my memory isn't what it used to be, but I could
have sworn you recently mentioned switching from the new Fling Dung starter back to the pre-mod direct drive starter. If I'm not mistaken, the pre-mod starter was the one that had been installed for years, correct? If so, this pre-mod starter may have been old and tired, and thus also suspect. In the previous paragraph, I asked about the history of any used starter. Specifically, if this same starter had previously been installed in your truck, did it behave satisfactorily before the mod with the previously existing cables, starter relay, etc.? This bit of information is vital, because when you swapped it, I think you had already swapped a bunch of other stuff, too. The pre-mod and post-mod behavior of the same starter will provide a big clue if any of the mod work actually induced a new fault.
And to triple check, the starter that is currently installed (got lost keeping track of the parts swapping) is a brand new direct drive Fling Dung, right? When did you swap that thing in there? I must have missed that in the bedlam.
With all the talk of suspect Chinese parts, what made you want to go that route again? Sure, I'm busting your butt, but you've got to throw us a bone. Chinese parts can be crap, and many of us have experienced that. Sure, it's a lot of money to gamble, but I think a genuine Motorcraft (or other high quality name brand) starter is a safe bet by now. You've literally tried everything else. Way back at message #262, I thought you were going to do that, but it doesn't appear so.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7,173
Likes: 1,173
Remember, the starter system is fairly simple. Other trucks with the same set-up work perfectly fine, and yours can too. There's a fix out there.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2009
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I need to learn how to quote parts of a conversation so I know how to show exactly how to answer each question...
the confusion on starters, I guess I'm not explaining that good enough. The original motorcraft was long gone 10 or so years ago. When I started the thread it had a parts store brand late model starter. I had it tested, and replaced under warranty. I know the guy at the parts store pretty good, explained to him how the bench test he was doing wasn't painting the whole picture, so when I told him it load tested bad, he agreed to warranty exchange it for a new one. I also had a direct drive starter, I believe Bosch, in a box because when I went to the late model starter, I had to buy it outright. So the third starter I put on was the direct drive I found in a box, its teeth were chewed up a bit and bad corrosion. But it worked. I then took it to the parts store to get it replaced because I didn't like the teeth being ground down on the starter. So I got the 4th starter (3rd different brand) that day. That's why I said I replaced it out of spite, the old one was worn, corroded, etc and these guys aren't doing much testing at the parts store, just zapping them with 12volts and see if they spin.
i came in the other swearing to myself I was ordering my 5th starter, then I came to the the realization that I can't find a motorcraft that was new and asked for suggestions between remanufactured or other reputable brands.
So for starters (pun intended) I have tried Bosch, driveworks, and carquest brands, if I remember correctly. Ultima is a brand that oreilly auto parts sells that is remanufactured motorcraft. I'm not keen on re manufacturing, if it's as good quality or not.
the confusion on starters, I guess I'm not explaining that good enough. The original motorcraft was long gone 10 or so years ago. When I started the thread it had a parts store brand late model starter. I had it tested, and replaced under warranty. I know the guy at the parts store pretty good, explained to him how the bench test he was doing wasn't painting the whole picture, so when I told him it load tested bad, he agreed to warranty exchange it for a new one. I also had a direct drive starter, I believe Bosch, in a box because when I went to the late model starter, I had to buy it outright. So the third starter I put on was the direct drive I found in a box, its teeth were chewed up a bit and bad corrosion. But it worked. I then took it to the parts store to get it replaced because I didn't like the teeth being ground down on the starter. So I got the 4th starter (3rd different brand) that day. That's why I said I replaced it out of spite, the old one was worn, corroded, etc and these guys aren't doing much testing at the parts store, just zapping them with 12volts and see if they spin.
i came in the other swearing to myself I was ordering my 5th starter, then I came to the the realization that I can't find a motorcraft that was new and asked for suggestions between remanufactured or other reputable brands.
So for starters (pun intended) I have tried Bosch, driveworks, and carquest brands, if I remember correctly. Ultima is a brand that oreilly auto parts sells that is remanufactured motorcraft. I'm not keen on re manufacturing, if it's as good quality or not.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
I need to learn how to quote parts of a conversation so I know how to show exactly how to answer each question...
the confusion on starters, I guess I'm not explaining that good enough. The original motorcraft was long gone 10 or so years ago. When I started the thread it had a parts store brand late model starter. I had it tested, and replaced under warranty. I know the guy at the parts store pretty good, explained to him how the bench test he was doing wasn't painting the whole picture, so when I told him it load tested bad, he agreed to warranty exchange it for a new one. I also had a direct drive starter, I believe Bosch, in a box because when I went to the late model starter, I had to buy it outright. So the third starter I put on was the direct drive I found in a box, its teeth were chewed up a bit and bad corrosion. But it worked. I then took it to the parts store to get it replaced because I didn't like the teeth being ground down on the starter. So I got the 4th starter (3rd different brand) that day. That's why I said I replaced it out of spite, the old one was worn, corroded, etc and these guys aren't doing much testing at the parts store, just zapping them with 12volts and see if they spin.
i came in the other swearing to myself I was ordering my 5th starter, then I came to the the realization that I can't find a motorcraft that was new and asked for suggestions between remanufactured or other reputable brands.
So for starters (pun intended) I have tried Bosch, driveworks, and carquest brands, if I remember correctly. Ultima is a brand that oreilly auto parts sells that is remanufactured motorcraft. I'm not keen on re manufacturing, if it's as good quality or not.
the confusion on starters, I guess I'm not explaining that good enough. The original motorcraft was long gone 10 or so years ago. When I started the thread it had a parts store brand late model starter. I had it tested, and replaced under warranty. I know the guy at the parts store pretty good, explained to him how the bench test he was doing wasn't painting the whole picture, so when I told him it load tested bad, he agreed to warranty exchange it for a new one. I also had a direct drive starter, I believe Bosch, in a box because when I went to the late model starter, I had to buy it outright. So the third starter I put on was the direct drive I found in a box, its teeth were chewed up a bit and bad corrosion. But it worked. I then took it to the parts store to get it replaced because I didn't like the teeth being ground down on the starter. So I got the 4th starter (3rd different brand) that day. That's why I said I replaced it out of spite, the old one was worn, corroded, etc and these guys aren't doing much testing at the parts store, just zapping them with 12volts and see if they spin.
i came in the other swearing to myself I was ordering my 5th starter, then I came to the the realization that I can't find a motorcraft that was new and asked for suggestions between remanufactured or other reputable brands.
So for starters (pun intended) I have tried Bosch, driveworks, and carquest brands, if I remember correctly. Ultima is a brand that oreilly auto parts sells that is remanufactured motorcraft. I'm not keen on re manufacturing, if it's as good quality or not.
Ok Before you go looking for another parts chain reman starter that was redone by a minimum wage (that is about what they make) flunky or some off shore slave laborer that earns even less. Check your local area for an Auto Electric shop. Every major center will have one or several.
And 9 times out of ten their prices will be on par with the big parts places but the quality will be many times better. And really who do wanna support local business or some unknown ? Bosch remans are not what they used to be to say the least and have gone way down hill. For the Large rebuilders I have had the best luck with Wilson as a whole.
AC Delco and Remy both have new manufacture starters.
Also Motorcraft reman's are available through Rock Auto
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Elder User
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Ok, I'll check out the rock auto one. The one place in the area that used to rebuild starters has fallen victim to big box stores, and no longer messes with them.
more testing today.
I didn't charge the battery last night as I wanted to see how the new battery and alternator are working. I also didn't pump the gas a few times either. With it being 6 degrees outside, I was cranking for over 3 minutes (not all at one time) without the hard start. As the battery started to drain, I began seeing the problem. At that point, I went out, disconnected coil lead and grounded out, and the problem disappeared. It spun the engine just fine. Reconnected the coil lead and finally got her fired up.
let her sit and idle and warm up, I noticed at first the belt was slipping on the alternator, so I'll have to address that later today with a new shorter belt as mine is maxed out on tension.
On to testing with coil lead grounded out again, I did a series of grounding the coil lead and plugging it back in, every time noticing a hard start when the coil lead was connected to distributor, and not an issue when it was grounded. That should give me solid evidence on something going on with vacuum advance.
vacuum advance measured with vacuum gauge showed 3cm mercury at idle, I'll post a picture in a minute. Also, timing still set at what cam grinder and engine builder said to, 14degrees btdc at idle, with vacuum disconnected, it was all in at 3k rpm 30-32 degrees.
another thing I noticed is that the motorcraft distributor, as you may know is a 3 piece unit, the metal base, the bottom cup plastic, and the top cap, while disconnecting coil lead from distributor cap, I can actually rotate the top cap back and forth maybe 1/2" on the bottom cup plastic, not sure if that's normal, and don't really know how to fix it, maybe duct tape around the two plastic pieces, bottom cup and cap? Is that metal spring clip tension too loose? Or maybe is there an o-ring supposed to go inside the groove on the underside of the dizzy cap to keep everything from easily turning?
i have not ruled out completely wiring or electrical, but not that we have essentially confirmed that even though we fixed many problems, it's time to move on and test other things?
more testing today.
I didn't charge the battery last night as I wanted to see how the new battery and alternator are working. I also didn't pump the gas a few times either. With it being 6 degrees outside, I was cranking for over 3 minutes (not all at one time) without the hard start. As the battery started to drain, I began seeing the problem. At that point, I went out, disconnected coil lead and grounded out, and the problem disappeared. It spun the engine just fine. Reconnected the coil lead and finally got her fired up.
let her sit and idle and warm up, I noticed at first the belt was slipping on the alternator, so I'll have to address that later today with a new shorter belt as mine is maxed out on tension.
On to testing with coil lead grounded out again, I did a series of grounding the coil lead and plugging it back in, every time noticing a hard start when the coil lead was connected to distributor, and not an issue when it was grounded. That should give me solid evidence on something going on with vacuum advance.
vacuum advance measured with vacuum gauge showed 3cm mercury at idle, I'll post a picture in a minute. Also, timing still set at what cam grinder and engine builder said to, 14degrees btdc at idle, with vacuum disconnected, it was all in at 3k rpm 30-32 degrees.
another thing I noticed is that the motorcraft distributor, as you may know is a 3 piece unit, the metal base, the bottom cup plastic, and the top cap, while disconnecting coil lead from distributor cap, I can actually rotate the top cap back and forth maybe 1/2" on the bottom cup plastic, not sure if that's normal, and don't really know how to fix it, maybe duct tape around the two plastic pieces, bottom cup and cap? Is that metal spring clip tension too loose? Or maybe is there an o-ring supposed to go inside the groove on the underside of the dizzy cap to keep everything from easily turning?
i have not ruled out completely wiring or electrical, but not that we have essentially confirmed that even though we fixed many problems, it's time to move on and test other things?
