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I never checked voltage drop across the solenoid, I have checked voltage at the s terminal while key held to crank., once, it showed 12 volts.
i guess what I'm getting at is that I have tested each "wire" in the system, I.e. Battery to solenoid, then solenoid to starter, I've never included the solenoid into the picture because I never had an opportunity to have someone crank or hold key to start position while measuring.
also, ignition switch is 32+ years old, I'm talking under the dash switch, pulled from a junk truck when I needed a steering column.
solenoid is brand new motorcraft, but I've never tested it with the pmgr starter... when I was using that starter, I had a Chinese solenoid.
I never checked voltage drop across the solenoid, I have checked voltage at the s terminal while key held to crank., once, it showed 12 volts.
i guess what I'm getting at is that I have tested each "wire" in the system, I.e. Battery to solenoid, then solenoid to starter, I've never included the solenoid into the picture because I never had an opportunity to have someone crank or hold key to start position while measuring.
also, ignition switch is 32+ years old, I'm talking under the dash switch, pulled from a junk truck when I needed a steering column.
solenoid is brand new motorcraft, but I've never tested it with the pmgr starter... when I was using that starter, I had a Chinese solenoid.
The ignition switch just controls the control voltage for the start circuit. it is either going to work or not work.
We are back to have you checked the feeds for the Ignition module to insure you are getting proper voltage during crank and run?
The ignition switch just controls the control voltage for the start circuit. it is either going to work or not work.
We are back to have you checked the feeds for the Ignition module to insure you are getting proper voltage during crank and run?
So theres no possibility the ignition switch can cut out?And no, I have not checked anything on the module, it's newish and motorcraft, but I haven't measured anything for voltages over there.
I had another thread in fte where I learned the original module was bad, I'll see if I can find it and link it. The truck was borrowed by a friend and it had a no spark condition he remedied by running a 12v wire from battery directly to coil to get it started.
Essentially I have missed one check on the solenoid, when the key is in the crank position, I need to make sure I get the full 12v to the other side of the solenoid. I know wiring to and from is good, but if I show 12v on the battery side, which I do constant, I need to make sure the solenoid transfers all 12v to the other side.
Correct?
when I installed the new solenoid, I made sure to grind down to bare metal on where it bolts to the fender. So the solenoid should be properly grounded...
when I installed the new solenoid, I made sure to grind down to bare metal on where it bolts to the fender. So the solenoid should be properly grounded...
So a duck walks into a bar...
If you're going to tell jokes, so am I.
Per your statement above, all you know is that you probably have a good connection between the starter relay housing and the inner fender. You do NOT know if the inner fender itself is well grounded. On my truck, it was not, and I'd imagine many others are like that, too.
Run the quick electrical tests as detailed in post #358 to be sure.
A lower load such as the starter solenoid on a PMGR or any solenoid fitted stater may not be enough to insure clean contact thru the start relay when the contacts get dirty.
Weren't there two main types of fender-mounted starter relays? Supposedly, one type was designed for way more current than the other. I thought I saw mention of this recently, maybe even in this thread, but can't find it now.
Here's the first style, with the big contacts on the side of the barrel. This is the type installed with my 351W and its original direct drive starter:
The second style, with the big contacts on the end. I think this is the lighter duty style, but am not positive:
Before I get ahead of myself, all of this testing will be unimportant if I'm wiring in a single cable from battery to starter, and splicing in a longer switch wire directly to starter.
New starter will be here tomorrow, I'll buy more new cable and terminals. I'm going to take a well needed day off and charge back in tomorrow.
Also talked to engine builder to get his opinion and ask timing questions on static compression and such. Funny how he stated the fact that there was NO way a GOOD QUALITY pmgr starter and starting system should have problems turning this teeny engine over.
So theres no possibility the ignition switch can cut out?And no, I have not checked anything on the module, it's newish and motorcraft, but I haven't measured anything for voltages over there.
Yes it can cut out but then the truck would not crank when it does. If the starter relay is not getting enough voltage it will chatter. And we have all heard what that sounds like. So on the ignition switch side it will either work or not.
Essentially I have missed one check on the solenoid, when the key is in the crank position, I need to make sure I get the full 12v to the other side of the solenoid. I know wiring to and from is good, but if I show 12v on the battery side, which I do constant, I need to make sure the solenoid transfers all 12v to the other side.
Correct?
when I installed the new solenoid, I made sure to grind down to bare metal on where it bolts to the fender. So the solenoid should be properly grounded...
Yes it is part of the Electrical circuit it needs to be tested. Once again one step at a time methodical testing. You have not been doing that and are still chasing this issue.
Before I get ahead of myself, all of this testing will be unimportant if I'm wiring in a single cable from battery to starter, and splicing in a longer switch wire directly to starter.
New starter will be here tomorrow, I'll buy more new cable and terminals. I'm going to take a well needed day off and charge back in tomorrow.
Also talked to engine builder to get his opinion and ask timing questions on static compression and such. Funny how he stated the fact that there was NO way a GOOD QUALITY pmgr starter and starting system should have problems turning this teeny engine over.
Again YOU CAN'T DO THAT. If you splice a longer wire to the starter solenoid that fed the starter relay you will roast the wiring or the ignition switch.
The Ford starter relays only draw a couple amps. Starter solenoids draw considerably more . Go back and re read post #360
Weren't there two main types of fender-mounted starter relays? Supposedly, one type was designed for way more current than the other. I thought I saw mention of this recently, maybe even in this thread, but can't find it now.
Here's the first style, with the big contacts on the side of the barrel. This is the type installed with my 351W and its original direct drive starter:
The second style, with the big contacts on the end. I think this is the lighter duty style, but am not positive:
Nope they both have the exact same rating. 750A make 100A break.
The side post is the early design and the top post is the later style.
The later style was just lower profile
The later style was a bit of an improvement as it was less apt to make partial contact it when worn it either worked or did not for the most part.
So, bypass the solenoid with a 30 amp relay. The ignition signal opens a switch in the relay sending power to the starter. I can keep my wiring, still running a bus bar between the solenoid on the pmgr and the battery terminal on the starter.
The only 2 I see that would work (not spade connector) are like the ones Karl posted pictures of. And if mine is new motorcraft, just wire in bus bar, and measure voltage across terminals. (It should be good)
Then I can crack a beer and all my troubles and starting gremlins will disappear? Wishful thinking?
