What is invoice price anyway. Does it have any basis in reality as to the actual cost to build the vehicle? I don't think it does and as I showed in an earlier post, the delta between MSRP and Invoice has shrunk considerably over the past two years. In another 2-3 years, at the rate the gap is closing, MSRP will equal the invoice price.


It's been reported that Ford makes $10,000-15,000 per Superduty. If that is the case, then the real cost to build a vehicle is far below the stated invoice price.


Lastly, it's just a number that shows a better price than MSRP and customers "feel" like they are getting a better deal the closer they get to this imaginary number or possibly beat it. Regardless, it's a price that most dealers will come down to if you work them a little, especially against one another.


Bottom line is to get the best price you can. They won't sell you a truck if they are going to lose money on the deal.


Adam

 

From my understanding, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the invoice price is the price the dealer paid for the truck, or what they owe Ford.

Actual cost of the vehicle, I don't think anyone knows that but for factory themselves.

 

True dealer cost from Ford is indeed lower than what we are calling "invoice", however the delta is not that great on these. I have a very open dealer, and have seen the information...there's not a lot of meat on the bone for these guys...with THESE trucks, at THIS time. I'm sure that will change, but for now, they're not "raking it in". This is not uncommon for a new release...and this is a big one...18 years on this body style.

 

I hope Ford is making $10k-$15k per SD...that money is funding these innovations. This development work wasn't easy or cheap...if it was, every MFGR would be doing it. If we want top of the line, we're going to need to pay for it.

 

I don't mind them making money as that's why we all work but they need to get their act together and start rolling out trucks that are sitting on lots. Also get a handle on their suppliers.

It's not that they are manufacturing more than usual number that they ran out of parts.
The manufacturing line is less than half the projected number per hour and they still don't have parts.

 

Then there's all of that mess...yes.

Do we know they're still down? Any new news? Haven't read much on it lately.

 

As I understand it, the dealer invoice is not the cost to them. Long story short, the dealer also has a tool called the "holdback". For Ford...it used to be around 3% of MSRP. So....3% of say a $75,000 truck = $2,250.00. My family's bought from the same dealer for many years so I'm fortunate in that they work with me and actually gave me 1/2 back. Obviously the more expensive the vehicle....the more holdback....the more room the dealer has to work. If you don't have a relationship with a specific dealer....I've always been able to do better with the Fleet sales staff.....if they'll work with you.


Something else that I feel is related. Holdback is intended to help the dealer offset their financing costs (since they have to pay Ford for the vehicle once it arrives). If you are ordering a vehicle though, the dealer soft costs (aka the money it costs to borrow money) are non existent since most of us are going to be at the dealer picking up our rides within minutes of them calling-lol. Because of that, when ordering a vehicle, I've always asked the dealer for some of the holdback. Sometimes I've gotten it...other times....zippo.

 

Adam is actually correct. Just why do you think that invoice is now readily shown by Ford? Because it has less meaning. All manufacturers are doing the same thing. The first reason is because today's consumer usually researched and found invoice pricing. The manufacturers had to do something to get around this which was to shrink the markup and make it appear that invoice and MSRP are now closer. What is not being told is that the "invoice" price to the dealer gets discounted in numerous ways on the different models the dealer sells. Example: sell 150 units in a month and get XX% off of invoice; take 50 units for stock on the dealership lot and get XX% off invoice; or a straight percentage discount to the dealer by the manufacturer to help move inventory, it being up to the dealer to pass along any or all of the discount to the buyer. So in the end I think you would rarely find a dealer that actually pays "invoice" for the unit. Invoice is just a starting point from which the dealer gets the discounts that he has earned from the manufacturer. Yes the manufacturers have shrunk the difference between invoice and MSRP but most of the change is due to the new pricing structure by the manufacturers. The buyer now does not know what the real cost to the dealer is no matter how much you research while at the same time the manufacturers now have some more control and a leg up over the dealers who now have to chase the goals set for them in order to get that invoice percentage down. And of course this is all in addition to the holdback that they get to help on the costs of financing their inventory.

 

Wow,
Where did this thread go?
It is funny listening to both sides, I am a middle man and can "see" both sides. So, to give a different perspective for others....The guy in front of me a Mc. Danalds today got a Big Mc for $8.99 with the added cooking fee. I happened to know the price of beef today so, I walked away with mine for $1.19. The guy behind was did not pay a service fee and walked out with his Big Mc for the suggested price of $3.99
I am one to tip and pay fair share for servives provided, but not sure about the "services" they provided when I ordered the truck...kind of like the cashier taking my order at Mc Danalds (while the cooks make it).
Seems silly that the car retail buisness works this way, glad others don't


My 2 cents. Now back to the regularly sceduled program!

 

I never ask to see the invoice price when I'm ready to purchase. I always offer 12-14k off the sticker and go from there. If they want the deal they will play, if not then like others have said they are not going to sell you a truck without making a profit. I have bought a lot of new trucks. The more goodies (higher the MSRP) the better they will deal. That is my experience. I'm waiting to touch, feel, smell, and drive one before I get too excited. I will also wait for the hype to settle since the less hype is better for me and the checkbook.

 

Every single time I've ever taken a vehicle in to have something performed according to a TSB, I've never been charged for it.[/QUOTE]

Here's an example. Ford released a TSB regarding customers complaining about excessive sagging of the F250 trucks. The TSB stated to install 4" spring blocks. The repair involved a new driveshaft. This TSB was definitely on the customer.

Technical Service Bulletins are not recalls and do not require the dealer to pay for it...its just an acknowledgment that some customers have had issues and how to fix it. If your dealer performs TSBs free of charge, I'd say you got a great dealer.[/QUOTE]I guess it depends on the TSB. In one particular case my girlfriend's truck tires were wearing unevenly. The dealer wouldn't cover the tires, but the fix was performed under warranty. That was a Chevrolet dealer that had a history of trying to rape its customers. At any Ford dealer, I've had no trouble getting TSBs done as warranty work. I understand the difference, but a warranty repair that has applicable TSB's should be paid for by the manufacturer. They always have been in my experience.

I expect them to make money on the trucks. Ford should, and the dealer should. It's crap like them trying to get a customer to pay $108,000 for a $65k truck that pisses me off.

 

Here's an example. Ford released a TSB regarding customers complaining about excessive sagging of the F250 trucks. The TSB stated to install 4" spring blocks. The repair involved a new driveshaft. This TSB was definitely on the customer.

Technical Service Bulletins are not recalls and do not require the dealer to pay for it...its just an acknowledgment that some customers have had issues and how to fix it. If your dealer performs TSBs free of charge, I'd say you got a great dealer.[/QUOTE]I guess it depends on the TSB. In one particular case my girlfriend's truck tires were wearing unevenly. The dealer wouldn't cover the tires, but the fix was performed under warranty. That was a Chevrolet dealer that had a history of trying to rape its customers. At any Ford dealer, I've had no trouble getting TSBs done as warranty work. I understand the difference, but a warranty repair that has applicable TSB's should be paid for by the manufacturer. They always have been in my experience.

I expect them to make money on the trucks. Ford should, and the dealer should. It's crap like them trying to get a customer to pay $108,000 for a $65k truck that pisses me off.[/QUOTE]



If you do not want to pay more that what you think you should, buying a brand new design truck right when they come out is not a good idea. I'm fixing to pay right at $73,000 for a loaded 250 platinum. A year from now you can probably get the same truck for $10,000 less. I know this, accept this and yet I still want one and hopefully on 9/5 I will own one.

 

I bought my F-250 less than a month ago. The dealer tried to get me to pay $1,500 a month for 72 months. That's when I walked out. He caught me before I left and decided to get more reasonable. I let him know I wasn't going to play games, and we obviously came to an agreement as I bought my truck there. I've never paid more than I think I should once I learned how the system worked. When I bought vehicles and found out I paid too much in the past, it was well after the fact. Again that was before I knew how things worked. I don't like the games, but if you want to buy a new vehicle there really isn't anything you can do about it. The entire dealership system is corrupt as ****. I don't want to get into all of it, but I'm of the firm opinion that they are all pretty much out to get as much money as possible. Service rates are ridiculous, the parts departments charge way too much, sales people are manipulative and the financing people are unscrupulous. I've seen dealers sell vehicles to people knowing full well they couldn't afford them. Standards of morality don't even enter into the equation.

When I decided to buy a Super Duty, I went with the proven 2016 model knowing full well the 2017's were inbound. I've been bitten by the first year of a new body style before and didn't want to go through that again. Plus I knew Ford didn't do a damn thing about the F-150's interior issues and those are going to carry over to the 2017 Super Duty. I'm not going to pay for cheap leather and heated and cooled seats that do absolutely zero cooling if you sit in them for more than 30 minutes. You could salvage an Ikea couch by the side of the road and get better material for your seats from it than what's on the new Super Duty Platinum trucks. Panel gap fitment of interior pieces and trim areas is appalling on all the F-150's and the two 2017 Super Duties I've seen. The AC trim bezels are a particularly good example of this. The bezels are a bit larger than the dash area they snap into. If you run your fingers along the seams you'll find they are sharp and don't line up well. I can visually see it, but not everyone I've pointed it out to seems to notice until they touch it. I've seen this in 6 or 7 2015+ F-150's from XLT 301A to Platinum trucks. Again, it was present in both the 2017 Lariat and Platinum I looked at. I didn't notice a lot of this stuff right away on my 2015 F-150 Lariat as it was still the nicest vehicle I had owned up to that point. It wasn't until I lived with it for awhile that many of these issues came to light. Although the badly fitting seat leather was apparent from the start.

Don't get me wrong, even with a few issues I'd take the new Super Duty in a heart beat if it weren't so much more expensive than the 2016's. All said and done, with the 7k markup increase on Lariat and above models and the deep discounts on the outgoing models, I just didn't think the new truck was worth the difference and potentially dealing with the issues that often arise with the start of a new model / body style. This all ties in with not paying more than I feel I should for a vehicle. In a few years when the new Super Duties are more proven and have had a couple revisions, with the right discounts I could certainly see myself trading up under the right circumstances. For now I think the new truck is just too expensive and you won't really see any deals on them until well after the 2016 stock is depleted. With the F-150, I bought mine in the latter half of 2015 and felt the improvements were worth having. It was many of those same improvements that had me decide that the 2017 SD wasn't worth it at this point.

 

Dealers really play games with "what do you want to pay a month?" Always negotiate the best price for a cash sale. Fist full of hundreds. Then start the negotiation for their finance or your finance. Have the numbers in order from a good credit union or lender. Chances are the dealer can beat it. This puts you in charge of your purchase. Let him chase, not dictate to you for the business.

 

Well stated, and completely agree. A little research, and a few phone calls saves many potential headaches, and puts you in position to call the shots.