If anyone remembers that thread, please post it.

In the meantime, I just looked at that link you supplied and it shows two categories; Dealer Invoice with Holdback and Suggested Retail.

What is Dealer Invoice with Holdback and do we know what the Holdback amount is, in percentage?

What is Suggested Retail?

This is confusing because window sticker or building a truck online only shows msrp.
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When I looked at this I thought it showed Invoice. But you are correct it does not.

 

Interesting.. Just glanced at the 5/23/2016 order guide I've got printed off, and it shows no 20" options on the XLT.. XLT says 18" standard, 17" optional. Closest you can get to a 20 with an XLT is to buy a F450 and get the 19.5 But that's as of 5/23...

And yes, I did it with a Lariat..

 

The dealer I ordered from sells everything for $50 over invoice, and I am paying a significant amount less than invoice (there isn't much meat on the Super Duty bone for the dealers...F-150's are another story). They are cutting into their holdback because my truck will basically roll across their paring lot. Terrific bunch of guys, and well known in the Raptor world for their invoice starting point. PM me if you would like more info.

 

I noticed the column as well. Ford or the dealer network rarely even mention holdbacks. I've attached a copy of my order sheet which shows the difference between MSRP and Invoice. The Total line show the amounts for the various letter plans and MSRP and Invoice. I'm confident that Invoice is the same as "Dealer Invoice with Holdback" or price to dealer before the holdback is credited. Note that for my order, MSRP is $78,020 and Invoice is $73540.56. When dealers are talking about "Invoice" this is what they are talking about. But remember, even though they pay Ford this amount, they also know that they will be getting a check back from Ford for say 3% of the Invoice amount. In this case, the holdback paid to the dealer when the truck sells will be $2,206.22. That is a pretty fair profit to the dealer who in my case did very little work to get the deal. But I don't know the actual holdback percentage so I'm guessing.

As to the Plan numbers, I will be buying my truck with an X Plan PIN which means I will pay the X Plan price of $73521.40. Note that this is slightly less than Invoice. $19.16 less than invoice to be exact. Since many dealers are willing to sell close to the Invoice price, the X Plan number isn't a huge discount. What it does is take all the negotiating and back and forth off the table. It also limits the amount of fees to a specific and small amount. Many dealers will tell a customer that they will sell a vehicle "at invoice plus $500 so they can make a little money on the deal." This is pretty deceptive because they know full well that holdback is profit too. They just say that to raise their margin as much as possible. A lot of people just don't know about holdbacks so they think that "$500 over what the dealer paid for it" is a great deal. If I paid $500 over invoice, the dealer would make $2,706.22 plus a $249 fee or just about $3,000.

It would be awesome if I had an A, Z or D Plan PIN but those are pretty hard to come by. They are only issued to Ford employees or high-ups at qualifying dealerships. There are others but it's a select group. Demo vehicles are sometimes sold this way. An owner at a dealership will buy a vehicle for a D Plan price, drive it for 6 months and then sell it used with remaining warranty for a couple thousand below invoice. Buyers feel like they are getting a great deal but even in that case the dealer makes a fair profit.

My understanding of these programs is a little dated as I worked in the car business 25 years ago. Programs and percentages have probably changed some but this is the gist of it.

Oh, and remember that factory rebates are given to the customer. My final price with a $1,000 rebate will be $72521.40.

 

Did the dealer have to enter the build in their system and then print that sheet out? Reason I ask is that online a customer can only get the msrp. I don't trust any dealer and want to know the invoice price. When I ordered my '03, I knew the invoice price (it was on the online build) and found a dealer that ordered the truck for $400 under invoice because he still made that 3% on the holdback.

If the dealer was able to print that sheet out for you, then it's worth the time for me to go to the dealer and have them build me a '17 on paper, print it out, then I'll know the invoice price.

I'm still confused by that attachment from earlier showing "Dealer Invoice with Holdback". If the invoice price on your build for the base model is $59,805.00, where is that on that attachment? Under F350, 4x4, crew cab, 160", the highest level is the Platinum model and that price is $58,694.00.

What is the X plan and how does one get that? That would eliminate some of the games as well, because if the X plan price is slightly under invoice, then the customer doesn't have to worry about the dealer games.

 

The dealer uses his factory order system and builds the vehicle as per your request. And yes, he should definitely print the order out for you and not hide the numbers. It's all about you walking in and telling the dealer what you want. If they don't accommodate, then go somewhere else that will. Just let them know that you need to know the numbers before you will agree to order and be up front with them. A decent dealer will return that courtesy. Bad ones beware. When you tell the dealer you have an X Plan PIN, all the games go away. If a dealer tells you he's willing to sell to you below invoice, he still needs to show you invoice so you can verify the numbers. It's no big deal. Just tell them what you expect.

There is a little difference between the build website and the dealer order system but the order system will trump. The build site gets you pretty close and if you want to take the time to audit the difference you're welcome to.

If you want an XPlan PIN, you can become a member of the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA). Give them $40, and follow the links to Ford's Partner website which allows you to generate a PIN. Just be aware that the PIN is not active until you've been a member for 60 days. If you're planning to use that, don't wait. You might get a truck before your PIN become active. What a shame it would be to have your truck sitting behind the dealer's fence when you're juiced and ready to go. The PIN is good for 12 months from the date of issue so you can take your time.

When it came to my order, I really don't sweat the small stuff. Some guys work the dealers and the deals for every penny. Others are ok with leaving a little on the table. I'm not a huge believer in dealer loyalty as they rarely return that favor on the next deal. I've been out of the business for a long time and haven't maintained relationships so I'm just a regular retail guy in their eyes.

 

Thanks for the info about the X Plan, had not clue about that EAA, definitely worth $40.00.

I agree about dealers, some are good, some are bad.

What about the pricing of your base model vs. that link? I'm still confused by where your base model falls in under the "Dealer Invoice with Holdback" category.

 

Awe, you're going to make me audit the difference? The linked document shows a base price as highlighted:




The package price on my order is $59,805 invoice and 63,285 MSRP before ANY add. That's before the diesel engine upgrade, and everything else. It's clearly more than the numbers on the linked document. All I can guess is that the pricing and/or package options changed between 4/15 and now. But all I really care about is the final cost. $72,521.40 for everything that is a Platinum Super Duty optioned the way I like it. Is it worth it to me? That's the question everyone has to answer on their for themselves. I said YES.

 

Yeah I think something changed between 4/15 and now. In your case, I agree, it's worth it because you know the true invoice price.

That X pricing is key though. I just looked at that site you mentioned, I'm amazed it's as easy as joining a club for $40 for the year, then getting the code. That is awesome.

How does X pricing work in regards to working with the dealer. Do you tell them when they build it or do those pricing options automatically appear on the build sheet they create?

Can X pricing be seen by someone building a truck online? Not sure if there is anywhere to input that info?

Here is a bigger question, is the X plan pricing always less than the invoice price? If so, that makes things so much easier and straightforward.

 

I was talking about the lariat, i never checked on an xlt. They probably dont offer them, but im sure you could get the salesman to swap them out for 20's as part of the deal.

 

X plan is supposed to be .4% below invoice but it's not always. Ford disclaims that it can be different sometimes. It is what it is. The Super Duty is a hot new release and Ford is surely trying to capitalize. No way you'll see anything but MSRP online. You have to tell the dealer you intend to use X plan right away. Don't lead them on thinking you're going to get a better deal. The point of the plan is that the price and fees are known and not negotiable. If you want to try, go to a dealer and ask for an xplan price and then go to another and negotiate without a pin. See what you can do.

 

I love this forum, thanks again. I love this X plan pricing too.

Does the X plan pricing work for 2016's that are sitting in dealer stock?

 

You can use the pin on all dealer stock and factory orders.

 

I checked with the EAA and they mentioned that there is no waiting to get a PIN. They said that I can obtain a PIN anytime you become a member.




I'd like some help deciphering this particular truck. I am going to attach what the dealer just sent, omitting the dealer name and vin.








This is for a 2016 sitting on their lot. I was curious about their pricing as this dealer has some sort of special internet pricing that doesn't make sense. Here are the numbers and on this one, the X Plan pricing is slightly above Invoice, which I thought was strange.


MSRP = $48, 325.00

Invoice = $45,968.75

X Plan = $46,059.88

Internet Price = $44,575.00


How can you they sell this truck for $1,393.75 less than invoice? The Total Holdback is $1,415.00.

I emailed the salesman back asking about this, but have not heard back from him.

 

Yes, you can get a PIN anytime but you need to have been a member for at least 60 days. The PIN is no good unless you signed up 60 days prior.