Great info here guys

 

His wife laughed when I said a similar thing to him at the campsite. She sees a lot more of the frustration than we do of course, so we all had a bit of a laugh.

 

 

Monty - I read your entire threads both here and on the GS RV site. You had a bag full of pain with the problem and I probably would not have been as patient (no, that's wrong, I would NOT)

OK - since you have posted your reply, I've briefly looked on the three RV websites I frequent ( iRV2, Keystone and MOC)to see if I can get a better feel for the problem. I also did a Google "Lippert RV frame flex problem". The Google on the Lippert frame flex turned out to be the most interesting as it told me that the problem was not totally related to one brand, was across the entire line up of all 5th wheels that use Lippert frames and that possibly Forest River had more problems though actual; numbers FR/Prime Time vs Keystone/Thor would be hard to put together. Addionally, this past camping season and after reading your trials, I wandered CGs as I usually will and looked at most 5ers and occasionally was able to talk to owners. Not a single 5er show a problem nor did a single owner complain that he had a frame problem. Was that his ignorance of the fact or did they just not have a problem.

OK, with that said, is there a problem with a Montana. For sure. Is there a problem with a FR product? For sure. Is there a problem with Keystone's customer service? Absolutely!!! Does FR have a problem with CS? Maybe, but they do seem to be more reactive to a problem.

What to do about the frame problem - I'm sure Lippert knows all too well that there is a problem with their frame products but as long as there are only a few per the almost 100K/year 5ers built, probably not 'encouraged' by the RV manufacturer to do better until the bottom line gets hurt. It's a heluva thing when your new pride and joy turns out to be a lemon and you are left, in many cases, a payment booklet and unable to enjoy using your 5er for its intended purpose.

Gigger - I do apologize for my improper responses to you. If I had a problem with what you said, should have taken it to a PM instead of the 'world' via a thread post.

 

Dave I accept your apology & consider it water under the bridge,
your well written response today is proof that we all understand the problems that can happen to almost any trailer,
my beef was mainly with customer service & how my friend Monty was treated.
thx again chum

 

See, again, most people make the mistake that it is a Lippert problem. It had nothing to do with the steel of the frame, it is the aluminum cage that the manufacturer sits in top of it. Yes, the slight flex in the pin box is something we all worry about, but has a minor impact on what the problem is. When rig is exposed in the nose, not a pretty sight by the way, what is actually happening when the load is applied to the pin is that the roof of the camper is being picked up while the actual floor or the frame of the rig is getting lower was the weight comes off the jacks and is applied to the pin. The welds that I put in the posts I made make you extremely mad when you see them and realize you paid a lot of money for that workmanship. There are those that have broken and there are those that haven't broken yet. By they way, if they know you pull it with a medium duty truck, they won't repair it. That in itself says lots about the construction when you think about it.

 

GIGGER and Irelands child, this is a good example of two rational adults settling their disagreement. I think you two should get together over a couple of pints of Guinness. And in your honor, I will do the same this evening (they are already cold in the frig)! And then I will drink another in Monty's honor!

 

Another point to be made about Lippert frames is this. While they certainly put out some low level stuff, what they build is different for each manufacturer. This is because they build their frames to each manufacturer's specs. In other words, Lippert doesn't spec the frames, the individual manufacturers do. So, each manufacturer has the ability to spec something stronger if so desired. Lippert makes a full boxed frame for DRV that is built like a tank. They also make the flex-o-matic that Montana uses. So, while Lippert should know better, so should the Montana when ordering them. If Montana ordered a stronger (read: more expensive) frame, their stud cage wouldn't need to deal with such stress and have the tendency to come apart...

Monty, your mention of the MD truck voiding the warranty says that Montana knows they spec a weak frame. Other brands have no problem whatsoever with MD trucks in front of their rigs.

 

Monty great info right there, thx for elaborating,

Baldicon I will raise a toast to all happy campers & wish them all the best of luck,
I think luck plays a part as to which trailer is made better than the other

 

Is this primarily a problem with the larger Montana's? We are looking at a 3121RL (35'), and love the floor plan and the extra's it comes with. But am not completely sold on getting it primarily based on your experience. And what do you mean "median duty" truck. I will be pulling with a F350 dually. I will also add an cushioned (air or foam cells) hitch, do you think that would reduce the chances of the frame/wall separation? I really feel for you with all that you had to go through.


Thanks

 

BTW no one has to check what Rodney types,
having also met Rodney I can say that he's the master of research among his many great qualities .....

 

Great point.
I've never pulled a rig that the pin box didn't flex a little while traveling. When I asked Keystone about it I was told that all of them flex, if they didn't, there would be more of a problem.
Dave, what I should have asked is if their pins flex more than FR. haha
My concern is now that they know they have a problem and have not addressed it in the production side, only the warranty one.

 

Thanks Gerry. As you know, when it comes to the RV industry, I've made quite a few friends and spent quite a bit of time watching what goes on in Elkhart and Goshen. I'd rather not know how the sausage is made but it's something I can't unsee or unlearn at this point...

 

By medium duty truck I mean like Freightliner or International trucks. I pull mine with a 350 as well. The FR Sandpipers and Sierra had problems with the frame twisting above the axles that Lippert techs always repaired by adding more cross bracing. Maybe the frame does have more to do with the damage than Keystone will admit. That makes me think that is why they repair the units instead of Lippert. As Rodney says, they spec the frame.
I still contend that there are WAY more rigs out there that have the damage, it's just that the owners don't know what to look for and have never heard of the problem.
BTW, Baldicon, I've had airbags on the truck before I got the Montana and now I have the TrailAir pinbox as well trying to limit the amount of shock to the trailer. But, one of the best mods I've done as it rides much smoother now.

 

Absolutely right Monty. There are a lot out there where people have no idea... yet. There is also the use/mileage factor. How many people put on big miles each year like you or I do? I'm sure many of my issues would have never shown up (or not shown up for a long time) for an owner who only pulls to the state line campground 75 miles away once a month. Put on 5-10k miles a year and it's a completely different story.