Big time cold start issues
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
That's a bruise to my ego, my credibility... and your wallet.
It's trying to kick, it has some fuel, but something's not quite full. Your chip could be a factor, but it's your call if you don't want to eliminate that possibility first off. When I experience any trouble at all, my default mode is to configure for as close to stock as is practical until I solve the mystery.
We can now eliminate voltage, but we don't know what the RPMs are... they must be at least 100. It sounds like you're making minimum, but it's slower than others I've heard.
Fuel pressure can be an issue, ICP can, or the injector-firing system can. Without a scan tool or some add-on gauges, this will take a little bit of probing to figure out. You can try pulling the ICP plug and see if that helps. What does the oil pressure gauge do when you crank? If you have an HPOP reservoir leaking back down, it would take at least 20 second of cranking to get the oil up to the reservoir and bleed some air out of the HPOP. If your fuel line has air in it or the system is plugged, it can sound like this. I assume you're getting the WTS light. We had a recent issue where a ground was loose on the IDM and the truck wouldn't fire... or buzz.
It's trying to kick, it has some fuel, but something's not quite full. Your chip could be a factor, but it's your call if you don't want to eliminate that possibility first off. When I experience any trouble at all, my default mode is to configure for as close to stock as is practical until I solve the mystery.
We can now eliminate voltage, but we don't know what the RPMs are... they must be at least 100. It sounds like you're making minimum, but it's slower than others I've heard.
Fuel pressure can be an issue, ICP can, or the injector-firing system can. Without a scan tool or some add-on gauges, this will take a little bit of probing to figure out. You can try pulling the ICP plug and see if that helps. What does the oil pressure gauge do when you crank? If you have an HPOP reservoir leaking back down, it would take at least 20 second of cranking to get the oil up to the reservoir and bleed some air out of the HPOP. If your fuel line has air in it or the system is plugged, it can sound like this. I assume you're getting the WTS light. We had a recent issue where a ground was loose on the IDM and the truck wouldn't fire... or buzz.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
Likes: 27
From: Hampton, Maryland.
Rich my ego has left this situation a loooong time ago. I guess I should have mentioned I had AE at the beginning but in my defense, I was hoping not to have to use it because the laptop that I had AE on had a motherboard issue.
I am loading it onto my sons laptop right now. Hopefully all will go well with that instal. What parameters should I look at?
I am loading it onto my sons laptop right now. Hopefully all will go well with that instal. What parameters should I look at?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
With the GPR LED you know Voltage is 12+ volts on the cold side of the GPR when you put it in the KOEO position. It may be that the relay is closing, but the AMPERAGE required to supply the GP's is insufficient (internal problem with the GPR, such as burned contact). Have you tried to jump the large GPR posts? It probably isn't that, but it is an easy test to make sure the amperage is passing to the cold side with the KOEO. It just sounds like bad GP's or GPR...but we know the GP's are good.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Chariton, IA
I know it's not likely since you said it had a new starter, but you might check your voltage while someone is cranking the engine to see if your starter is drawing to much voltage. Or I think you can set your AE to record it too.
I had a truck doing that a few years ago and found out even tho batteries were at 13 volts, starter sounded good, and had smoke coming out tailpipe, as soon as we hit the starter the voltage dropped to about 10.2V.
Like I said not likely with a new starter but an easy check.
I had a truck doing that a few years ago and found out even tho batteries were at 13 volts, starter sounded good, and had smoke coming out tailpipe, as soon as we hit the starter the voltage dropped to about 10.2V.
Like I said not likely with a new starter but an easy check.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 22
From: Springfield, PA
I've been having similar issues with my '99, waiting for spring to start the realy troubleshooting (my truck doesn't fit in my little garage) but it usually starts after cyclying the GP's.
Anyway, commenting on cjgray's reply, once at the airport after leaving it for a week (below freezing the entire week, in Phila) I couldn't get it to start, so when AAA came by they hooked up a portable jump battery and it started up just fine. I have new 1000 cca batteries in her from last fall. This surprised me, so now I will be checking my starting voltage as well.
Anyway, commenting on cjgray's reply, once at the airport after leaving it for a week (below freezing the entire week, in Phila) I couldn't get it to start, so when AAA came by they hooked up a portable jump battery and it started up just fine. I have new 1000 cca batteries in her from last fall. This surprised me, so now I will be checking my starting voltage as well.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
Likes: 27
From: Hampton, Maryland.
I did not and I have forgotten how to check it. Do I pull the sensor and check it in the hole?
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Vermillion, SD
Just open the plug on top of the HPOP to check the oil level. Have you tried plugging in the block heater for a couple of hours and then trying to start it? I had a friend with a similar sounding problem and plugging it in helped, even when it was reasonably warm weather, above 30 degrees. Knowing if starts when heated may help narrow down the problem, just a thought.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
Likes: 27
From: Hampton, Maryland.
Ok, definitely not a HPOP situation. I went out and cranked it a few times, same blue/gray smoke and sounding almost like it wants to kick over. Immediately went under the hood and loosened the inspection plug on the HPOP and as soon as I got the last thread clear, oil came out with a little bit of force and pushed the plug up and out of the way.
What can I set up on AE to look for? What sensor is not getting a reading correctly? I am going to try plugging it in to warm it but it wasn't below freezing last night(mid 30's) and it is 43 right now. I don't think those temps should be a big issue.
What can I set up on AE to look for? What sensor is not getting a reading correctly? I am going to try plugging it in to warm it but it wasn't below freezing last night(mid 30's) and it is 43 right now. I don't think those temps should be a big issue.
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Chariton, IA
Here is a quote from Rich on another thread he is doing called "AE class is in session". You might want to check it out, a lot of good info there.
Now... for the AE data that will tell us the 7.3L should start:
- Vehicle Power: At least 10.5 volts with glow plugs on (but that low number is marginal... I have at least 11.5 on my truck)
- RPM Signal: 100 RPM minimum (from the CPS)
- Injector Control Pressure (that ICP you burned into your thinking... like pumping up the keg tap): 500 PSI, or about 0.85 volts on the ICP sensor
- Fuel Injector Pulse Width (FIPW): Between 1 and 6 milliseconds (0.001 to 0.006 seconds) on the 7.3L .........Between 0.5 ms and 2 ms (with FICM SYNC and SYNC achieved) on the 6.0L
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
Likes: 27
From: Hampton, Maryland.
I just jumped the relay with a screw driver for about 40-45 seconds. The truck still did not start. The shaft of the screw driver smoked, got a little welding mark and was very warm to the touch so I am pretty sure the glow plugs are getting energized, at least that time. Gonna go hook up AE and video it for you guys to look at.I will check back. Thanks CJ.