Jim's ongoing starter issues.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
At the time I thought I was doing the right thing by purchasing a new flywheel with the ring gear already installed.
My truck was torn apart in the drive, the ring gear was original, and I didn't want to make an extra trip to the machine shop to have it R&R'd.
After lunch I'm going to disconnect the starter cable, then re-set the starter motor as you described.
My truck was torn apart in the drive, the ring gear was original, and I didn't want to make an extra trip to the machine shop to have it R&R'd.
After lunch I'm going to disconnect the starter cable, then re-set the starter motor as you described.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Good luck with it, before you do that, can you take the gear from the old, if it is the same, and see if the pitch matches your ring gear? That might help decipher the problem. BTW, once the race in Las Vegas starts, I will not be back on-line till late if at all today.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
That's what we tried to do yesterday Bill.
Everything seemed to mesh, but it is really hard to determine due to the different tooth forms on the starter and ring gear.
Without the starter itself to hold the tail end of the shaft, and the (now) sloppy fit of the bushing in the housing, you'd need like six hands to hold the shaft in place, the gear forward, and measure.
It's hard enough to get your head in a position to see the mesh with the exhaust manifold, crossmember and axle in the way.
Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in this thread. It's been a great help!
Everything seemed to mesh, but it is really hard to determine due to the different tooth forms on the starter and ring gear.
Without the starter itself to hold the tail end of the shaft, and the (now) sloppy fit of the bushing in the housing, you'd need like six hands to hold the shaft in place, the gear forward, and measure.
It's hard enough to get your head in a position to see the mesh with the exhaust manifold, crossmember and axle in the way.
Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in this thread. It's been a great help!
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,715
Likes: 1
hopefully frankenstarter works. i was just looking at some drivetrain parts and a thought popped into my head, maybe you could use some gear marking paint and see the mesh that way.
of course, i dont know if it will help as much or work as well as it does in my head
of course, i dont know if it will help as much or work as well as it does in my head
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Yes Aaron,
I think I mentioned using zinc oxide sun block as marking paste.
I wish it was easier to see all that is going on in there.
If I can't resolve it this week I'll be getting another ring gear.
I think I mentioned using zinc oxide sun block as marking paste.
I wish it was easier to see all that is going on in there.
If I can't resolve it this week I'll be getting another ring gear.
New User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
I had a similar problem with Chevy's (I know, I know....)......
Get a can of PVC primer and give a good dose around all of the bell housing bolt holes. If your mounting bolt threaded holes (just 1 of them) has a slight crack, that starter will wobble hard under starting torgue.
I found out the hard way never to buy a GM 454 that someone lost the tail-mounting bracket screw from the starter. The outside bolt hole is thin and will crack under the torque of starting. The cracks are almost impossible to see, but with that force they "give" just enough to change the mesh pattern and eat starter and flywheel (flex-plate) teeth.
Just something to check....
Jim
Get a can of PVC primer and give a good dose around all of the bell housing bolt holes. If your mounting bolt threaded holes (just 1 of them) has a slight crack, that starter will wobble hard under starting torgue.
I found out the hard way never to buy a GM 454 that someone lost the tail-mounting bracket screw from the starter. The outside bolt hole is thin and will crack under the torque of starting. The cracks are almost impossible to see, but with that force they "give" just enough to change the mesh pattern and eat starter and flywheel (flex-plate) teeth.
Just something to check....
Jim
Thread Starter
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Thank you for your advice tall freak!
Are you saying to use the plumbing primer as a crack checking dye?
Are you saying to use the plumbing primer as a crack checking dye?
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Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Jim's ongoing starter issues.
Ok, I either buried the spare starter under K-car stuff, or brought it home and buried it here. I did pick up my extra 460 flex plate and took some measurements on it. Overall diameter is 14 1/4", tooth width at the root is 0.192". at the tip is 0.103" there is only a very slight chamfer on the front side.
Hope this helps some.
Hope this helps some.
Thread Starter
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I've been scratching my head trying out how (where) to measure the teeth.
For some reason I convinced myself they needed to be measured on the pitch circle and it was fighting me every step of the way.
I will take those measurements tomorrow and report back.
I did closely inspect the bellhousing mounting points and found no cracks.
Although If I keep torquing the lower bolt into the aluminum ZF it is going to strip soon.
Maybe removing it to measure is the perfect opportunity to Helicoil it...
For some reason I convinced myself they needed to be measured on the pitch circle and it was fighting me every step of the way.
I will take those measurements tomorrow and report back.
I did closely inspect the bellhousing mounting points and found no cracks.
Although If I keep torquing the lower bolt into the aluminum ZF it is going to strip soon.
Maybe removing it to measure is the perfect opportunity to Helicoil it...
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
If the truck wasn't sitting on the gravel and dirt in the back yard, I probably would have pulled the starter and measured it for you. That and as a good friend says "getting wrapped around the axle on an Isuzu pickup".
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
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From: Northeast, OK
My 460 MT flywheel from the '90 F350/ZF5 measures:
Picture (now) attached.
- 15 9/16" OD
- Root: .192" (Honest, I didn't even remember what Bill's reading was.)
- Tip: .065"
Picture (now) attached.
Last edited by Gary Lewis; Mar 12, 2012 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Go to the other computer to attach picture Grrrrr!
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Hmm, so the MT flywheel for the ZF is a larger OD. The Isuzu is an 89 pickup that the was given to my plumber. It has been sitting for 16 years and somewhere in there the gas cap was taken off. It must have had nearly a full tank, because there is close to 3/4" of crud in the bottom. It was parked allegedly with a burned valve, #3 has about an 80% reading on my CLT, 1,2 & 4 sit right at 100% or 0 leakage at 20psi. Once we put plugs in it, the engine cranks like it has one low cyl. And he said he could hear an audible hiss from whats left of the muffler on #3. I don't know if he is going to proceed with it or not, it is loaded, full power, AT, AC, roof.