Jim's ongoing starter issues.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
The links open in notepad on my end...
Okay, there's a 5* difference in the opening angle, and that of the last nosecone brace.
It doesn't seem to mention a difference in the 'stickout' from the mounting flange. (which is what I have seen between the AT & MT starters)
I need to find a diagram or drawing showing the relationship of the pinion shaft to the piloting diameter.
Maybe I should just go down to the local autoparts and try and get one of each in my hand.
Thank you both, Matt & Bill!
Okay, there's a 5* difference in the opening angle, and that of the last nosecone brace.
It doesn't seem to mention a difference in the 'stickout' from the mounting flange. (which is what I have seen between the AT & MT starters)
I need to find a diagram or drawing showing the relationship of the pinion shaft to the piloting diameter.
Maybe I should just go down to the local autoparts and try and get one of each in my hand.
Thank you both, Matt & Bill!
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Jim's starter issues.
Okay, there's a 5* difference in the opening angle, and that of the last nosecone brace.
It doesn't seem to mention a difference in the 'stickout' from the mounting flange. (which is what I have seen between the AT & MT starters)
I need to find a diagram or drawing showing the relationship of the pinion shaft to the piloting diameter.
Maybe I should just go down to the local autoparts and try and get one of each in my hand.
It doesn't seem to mention a difference in the 'stickout' from the mounting flange. (which is what I have seen between the AT & MT starters)
I need to find a diagram or drawing showing the relationship of the pinion shaft to the piloting diameter.
Maybe I should just go down to the local autoparts and try and get one of each in my hand.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Jim's starter issues.
No problem, that was what I figured needed to be done with it.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Pretty darn sure that THIS is my problem. 
But rather than deal with that mess I would just like to find a starter that works with it.
Gary has already posted his ring gear diameters.
I'm going to see if I can get spec's on some other Fords and find one that is slightly smaller.
Perhaps that starter will mesh well with what I have.
But rather than deal with that mess I would just like to find a starter that works with it.
Gary has already posted his ring gear diameters.
I'm going to see if I can get spec's on some other Fords and find one that is slightly smaller.
Perhaps that starter will mesh well with what I have.
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
I know it pains, but you're going to have to pull the flywheel, sorry.
Your hack may get you by for awhile, but I suspect it'll still happen again, likely not as often though. And yes I would create a spacer to fit else it will not stay put.
What I suspect will happen with the hack, is there is no support for the starter other then the elongated bolt hole with spacer ... There is to much force for that to hold up, it needs to be firmly indexed into it's mount.
This lack of starter support is a MAJOR failing on the SBC ...
Please do not be offended with my use of the term "Hack", it is not personal, it is a hack, one I would try as well!
Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do, to get what we gotta get done, done ...
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Your hack may get you by for awhile, but I suspect it'll still happen again, likely not as often though. And yes I would create a spacer to fit else it will not stay put.
What I suspect will happen with the hack, is there is no support for the starter other then the elongated bolt hole with spacer ... There is to much force for that to hold up, it needs to be firmly indexed into it's mount.
This lack of starter support is a MAJOR failing on the SBC ...
Please do not be offended with my use of the term "Hack", it is not personal, it is a hack, one I would try as well!
Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do, to get what we gotta get done, done ...
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Well, the modified starter failed.
I was 50+ miles from home.
It will not stay engaged to get full revolution of the engine.
Nine times out of ten it just freewheels.
It has not shifted over.
I see from Archion's pdf, reference #13 that the 220-14017, 12 tooth gear drive assembly is 1 1/4" diameter vs 10 tooth which is 1"
That would gain me 1/8" engagement depth if the tooth form is correct.
Both have 56mm projection.
Having pictures of the various nosecones is a great help.
But I'm not sure from that if any of the various ones would put the axis closer.
I was 50+ miles from home.
It will not stay engaged to get full revolution of the engine.
Nine times out of ten it just freewheels.
It has not shifted over.
I see from Archion's pdf, reference #13 that the 220-14017, 12 tooth gear drive assembly is 1 1/4" diameter vs 10 tooth which is 1"
That would gain me 1/8" engagement depth if the tooth form is correct.
Both have 56mm projection.
Having pictures of the various nosecones is a great help.
But I'm not sure from that if any of the various ones would put the axis closer.
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Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Jim, there is also a 10 tooth that is a little bigger than 1". What you need to do is see if you can fabricate something to actually measure the shaft to ring gear distance. If I were home, rather than on the Eastern Shore, I would pull my spare out and get some dimensions for you. I know it is an automatic application as it came off the parts truck.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Tomorrow I will pull this one apart and bolt the nosecone into the bell housing as I did before.
Except THIS time I'll rip the drive apart so I can set the shaft and gear in place and actually see what engagement I have.
I also see that some nosecones have needle bearings rather than a bushing.
I don't know if this would be more robust, or just more small parts to fail...
Thoughts?
Except THIS time I'll rip the drive apart so I can set the shaft and gear in place and actually see what engagement I have.
I also see that some nosecones have needle bearings rather than a bushing.
I don't know if this would be more robust, or just more small parts to fail...
Thoughts?
Thread Starter
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I'll buy another starter and combine them into "Frankenstarter" if need be....
I was more worried about the cage and rollers being hammered as the starter jumps into engagement or skips over the ring gear.
I was more worried about the cage and rollers being hammered as the starter jumps into engagement or skips over the ring gear.
Thread Starter
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Well tomorrow I will dismantle the starter I have and see what 1/8" will gain.
If that will get me where I need to be I will try and figure out the application for the '92 Lincoln starter with the 12 tooth gear.
F2VY-11350-A
The needle bearing snout is a truck application.
F2TZ-11130-B
If that will get me where I need to be I will try and figure out the application for the '92 Lincoln starter with the 12 tooth gear.
F2VY-11350-A
The needle bearing snout is a truck application.
F2TZ-11130-B