Starting issues. Please help!
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Glendale AZ
Yes, I pulled the starter off and checked wires, I can see no problem with any of the system. What issues there were I took care of over a week ago by replacing terminals.
The engine is spinning at 130-150 rpm when cold so according to the specs it should start. It doesn't seem to be any slower cranking when cold than warm.
The only thing I haven't done with that is actually run a jumper cable to the starter from the battery to make sure there is no loss. I will do that when I get it back together today.
The engine is spinning at 130-150 rpm when cold so according to the specs it should start. It doesn't seem to be any slower cranking when cold than warm.
The only thing I haven't done with that is actually run a jumper cable to the starter from the battery to make sure there is no loss. I will do that when I get it back together today.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,499
Likes: 10
From: Sterling Heights,Mi
Do you have access to an amp meter, could you do an amp check when trying to start your truck..
Not sure what I am thinking yet, but just want to do a comparison.. see if maybe the starter is being worked a little harder, or if something is loaded up somehow?
Not sure what I am thinking yet, but just want to do a comparison.. see if maybe the starter is being worked a little harder, or if something is loaded up somehow?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
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From: Glendale AZ
I do have an ampmeter but I'm not sure it would help. The starter spins the engine fast enough to start even when cold according to the specs. It doesn' make much difference if it is cold or warm for how fast/slow it spins.
I can check it once I get everything back together today. Just another thing to check.
I'm thinking I may swap out one of my batteries for my Optima out of my Jeep to see if it makes any difference too, but I have had it hooked up with jumpers to another running PSD with no difference.
I did find that my EBP sensor was plugged (carbon) today, so I cleaned it and the tube up. I know that will probably help my mileage and power issue, but unsure if it will make it start hard or not.
I can check it once I get everything back together today. Just another thing to check.
I'm thinking I may swap out one of my batteries for my Optima out of my Jeep to see if it makes any difference too, but I have had it hooked up with jumpers to another running PSD with no difference.
I did find that my EBP sensor was plugged (carbon) today, so I cleaned it and the tube up. I know that will probably help my mileage and power issue, but unsure if it will make it start hard or not.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 13
From: Glendive, MT
I have followed every page of this but some of the details are getting fuzzy as this issue has gone on so long.
Have you checked compression? If I remember correctly you did have smoke out the exhaust during cranking right? That would indicate you are getting fuel. It will start when plugged in but not otherwise even though the weather there is what I would call warm. That leads me to believe your compression is low. You don't seem to be getting enough heat in the cylinder to fire.
You might pull your intake tube and look for signs of a dusted turbo. I'm thinking it is possible your engine has injested enough dust that the rings are no longer makeing a good seal. If you do a compression test, be sure to unplug the injector harness. If the engine fires during the test it will explode the gauge, possibley causing injury.
You might plug the truck in to get it started and check the blowby. What ever you do, don't just replace parts hoping to find the problem.
Here is a guide showing what a dusted turbo looks like.
Have you checked compression? If I remember correctly you did have smoke out the exhaust during cranking right? That would indicate you are getting fuel. It will start when plugged in but not otherwise even though the weather there is what I would call warm. That leads me to believe your compression is low. You don't seem to be getting enough heat in the cylinder to fire.
You might pull your intake tube and look for signs of a dusted turbo. I'm thinking it is possible your engine has injested enough dust that the rings are no longer makeing a good seal. If you do a compression test, be sure to unplug the injector harness. If the engine fires during the test it will explode the gauge, possibley causing injury.
You might plug the truck in to get it started and check the blowby. What ever you do, don't just replace parts hoping to find the problem.
Here is a guide showing what a dusted turbo looks like.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
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From: Glendale AZ
I have been trying to find a compression test to use. I just found out yesterday that I am being laid off work this week so I can't afford to go out and buy one (other than maybe harbor frieght).
Thanks for the ideas, I'll look into the turbo. I have had the tubes off (they are actually off right now) and things seemed to look normal without any wear. But I'll look through the pdf and see if there is something I'm missing.
EDIT:
After looking at the turbo it seems as if that is not an issue. I still wonder about the EBP valve working correctly. I have a friend coming over this afternoon and he will help me determine if that is a factor. I may to the delete while I have it this torn down as well.
Thanks for the ideas, I'll look into the turbo. I have had the tubes off (they are actually off right now) and things seemed to look normal without any wear. But I'll look through the pdf and see if there is something I'm missing.
EDIT:
After looking at the turbo it seems as if that is not an issue. I still wonder about the EBP valve working correctly. I have a friend coming over this afternoon and he will help me determine if that is a factor. I may to the delete while I have it this torn down as well.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 13
From: Glendive, MT
If you have good compression the next thing would be timing. It seems like you have checked everything else. I have seen in gassers where the balancer or cam gear retaining bolts have worked loose and caused the key to wear to the point that it throws cam timing off. I would think that would also affect compression though.
If you have fuel, air, and compression, it should start.
What king of work do you do?
If you have fuel, air, and compression, it should start.
What king of work do you do?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Glendale AZ
I'm a pilot but also a welder/fabricator, handyman, I've built houses and also been an automotive technician, along with a long list of other skills.
Any work up your way?
Thanks
Any work up your way?
Thanks
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
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From: Glendale AZ
Update:
Barry came over and we ran the injector buzz test with the engine cold.
All 8 injectors were very muted! We put it back on Barrys truck and listened to the difference. Even though his truck was warm it was a huge difference. After listening to it again it made it sound like it was just the solinoid on mine clicking and not the injector actually buzzing open.
So looks like I have the culprit. I'll be rebuilding injectors as soon as I can get a kit here.
If anyone has rebuild their own injectors I'd like to hear comments on the kits they used and who they purchased them through.
Barry came over and we ran the injector buzz test with the engine cold.
All 8 injectors were very muted! We put it back on Barrys truck and listened to the difference. Even though his truck was warm it was a huge difference. After listening to it again it made it sound like it was just the solinoid on mine clicking and not the injector actually buzzing open.
So looks like I have the culprit. I'll be rebuilding injectors as soon as I can get a kit here.
If anyone has rebuild their own injectors I'd like to hear comments on the kits they used and who they purchased them through.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,726
Likes: 5
From: Slatington, PA
I know the starter's been eliminated as the problem, but just so you guys know, you'd have to have one heck of an ammeter to check the draw while starting. The trucks draw around 600-900 amps starting, 1200 when the starter is at half load and 2400 amps stalled (thats enough to melt the battery stud off the starter, i know cause i've done it)
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,111
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Update:
Barry came over and we ran the injector buzz test with the engine cold.
All 8 injectors were very muted! We put it back on Barrys truck and listened to the difference. Even though his truck was warm it was a huge difference. After listening to it again it made it sound like it was just the solinoid on mine clicking and not the injector actually buzzing open.
So looks like I have the culprit. I'll be rebuilding injectors as soon as I can get a kit here.
If anyone has rebuild their own injectors I'd like to hear comments on the kits they used and who they purchased them through.
Barry came over and we ran the injector buzz test with the engine cold.
All 8 injectors were very muted! We put it back on Barrys truck and listened to the difference. Even though his truck was warm it was a huge difference. After listening to it again it made it sound like it was just the solinoid on mine clicking and not the injector actually buzzing open.
So looks like I have the culprit. I'll be rebuilding injectors as soon as I can get a kit here.
If anyone has rebuild their own injectors I'd like to hear comments on the kits they used and who they purchased them through.
Not that you couldn't do it, but that there are a few things inside the injector that need to have a certain tolerance and if that measurement is off, then just throwing a rebuild kit on it won't really fix the problem.
If I were in your situation, I would box them up and send them off to Ryan Casserly who has a great reputation for doing a good job on the injectors and he also balances them.
Yes it costs more, but sometimes a specialist will be able to do a better job.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
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From: Glendale AZ
I understand the concern, I'm looking at it very carefully and trying to get any feedback from those that have taken on this task.
I'm very mechanically inclined and have heard good things about the kit from Jim Rosewood. His kit comes with the tools and dvd/photos to complete it along with measuring tolerances. Seems like he's gone out of his way to do the DIY kit correctly so that his customers have good success.
Obviously this isn't the same as getting rebuilt injectors but I figured I could do it and have it done right while learning at the same time.
Anyone that has experience rebuilding their own injectors I'm all ears!
I'm very mechanically inclined and have heard good things about the kit from Jim Rosewood. His kit comes with the tools and dvd/photos to complete it along with measuring tolerances. Seems like he's gone out of his way to do the DIY kit correctly so that his customers have good success.
Obviously this isn't the same as getting rebuilt injectors but I figured I could do it and have it done right while learning at the same time.
Anyone that has experience rebuilding their own injectors I'm all ears!
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Glendale AZ
After some debate and research I went ahead and ordered Jim Rosewoods stage 2 injectory DIY kit. From what I've found and in talking to Jim on the phone I feel good about this route. Next up is a DP tuner to give the engine a little wake up.
I don't want to go too extreme but it was very little $$ difference for stock nozzles vs the stage 2's. I was planning on getting a DP tuner anyway to I figured I'd do it all at once.
I'll let you all know how the rebuild proccess goes.
I don't want to go too extreme but it was very little $$ difference for stock nozzles vs the stage 2's. I was planning on getting a DP tuner anyway to I figured I'd do it all at once.
I'll let you all know how the rebuild proccess goes.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Glendale AZ
I don't know off hand. I don't have a guage....yet. But once it was started it would run.
We talked about this for a while but I don't remember where the conversation ended.
We just kept coming back to the glow plug system until someone else suggested we do the buzz test cold.
The test cold was WAY more muted than when the engine was warm. Seemed like the problem, but now that you say that you've got me wondering if I'm going to have another problem once the injectors are back in the engine.
We talked about this for a while but I don't remember where the conversation ended.
We just kept coming back to the glow plug system until someone else suggested we do the buzz test cold.
The test cold was WAY more muted than when the engine was warm. Seemed like the problem, but now that you say that you've got me wondering if I'm going to have another problem once the injectors are back in the engine.