>thanks, but i have bigger plans in my life, i will
>eventually attend law school, and than practice it.

Excellent! But I assume you won't abandon audio as a hobby, am I correct?

 

You asked what the relationship between us new members are. Well, most of us came over from Caraudioforum.com or caraudiotalk.com to attempt to educate some people who were unfortunatly being told something other than the truth. Now if you are man enough to actually go over and check, you will find that Geo is one of the most respeceted members on both forums as is thylanter. Myself and a couple of the others are well respected, well regarded car audio enthusiasts on caraudioforum.com. But don't do that if you can't take being proven wrong.

Now, it seems you blindy place your faith in large name manufacturers without gaining an personal knowledge or experience of your own, which, unfortunately, that makes you an idiot. You are trying to argue with people who know more about the subject than you could ever hope to. At least Randawg gives points and tries to make a case (even though it is not quite correct). You on the other hand, have yet to say anything intelligent. Why dont you work on that?



For those of us from CAF, I showed this thread to Kurt (warbleed) and his response was this "you can never win an arguement against an ignorant person".

For those of you who don't know Kurt, he designed one of the best car subwoofers on the planet at this time, the Elemental Designs SP. check it out: www.edesignaudio.com

 

>Randawg,
>
>People on this site obviously look up to you, probably
>because you are obviously intelligent, albeit a bit
>bull-headed.

agreed

>I think you practically OWE it to poor
>rbrendel if nothing else, to read the paper that RC is
>offering. He is making himself look particularly bad trying
>to back you up on this.
>
>So if you don't want to learn yourself, at least give it the
>benefit of the doubt for the people who look up to you.

Your 'eyes' are failing your in more than one way, look above you.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 10:55 PM (EST)]>ok, rbendel u are way out of ur league here. u said ur 17,
>so am i. u worked at an audio store over the summer, good
>for u im sure u learned a lot about car audio. i worked at a
>garage/bodyshop over the past 2 summers, does that make me
>an ASE certified tech? no, and it doesnt make u an audio
>tech either. adire audio, specifically brahma has been to
>numberous comps (and not ur average town comp) i mean
>national events and have done excedingly well. as did
>Elemental Designs, Digital Designs, Resonant Enginiering,
>Shocker,Treo, ONYX and others i cant remember at this time.
>and they are all 10x better than what u own, and have been
>introduced to. based on ur facts that adire is a rip off, u
>are 100% WRONG. as for this issues its old and more than
>enough people have supplied answers stating that
>underpowering wont kill a sub unless its clipped signal.
>enought with this bickering, its pointless over the
>internet.

hey, if you examine my post, it will say i worked at an audio shop and i heard nothing about adire audio . never did i say that i was qualified in anyway as being an "expert." i also said that i was not technically able to discuss the topic in that way. i just think its weird that the biggest audio manufacturers would put out false information. i was merely compairing the credibility of major companies to adire audio. i admit i went off calling the product a home based product but i was being attacked as well. you attacked me for no reason at all. but oh well.

all i asked for is for a second opinion from a major company. if im wrong on this subject i will admit it when i am convinced. your right i cant speak as an expert in audio for any means. my knowledge is based on experiences with different companies and speakers. i installed speakers i didnt make them. so optikal ullushun your not alone. i never for a second tried to state technical information and compare it to whatever. I understand it, but not to the point of typing it all out. if i would have known how "big" these guys were into the industry i would not have spouted off.

 

e-mail me and i will hook you up with RC.

 

>
>i just think its weird that the biggest
>audio manufacturers would put out false information. i was
>merely compairing the credibility of major companies to
>adire audio.

so you are sayinbg large companies never lie? wow... that'll be the day.

have you ever realized a lot of the numbers on spec sheets put out by major companies are lies? oooh, wait, i can't say that, thats politcally incorrect. They are not "the full truth"

example: Head Unit power. I'm sure that Pioneer has some how managed to fit a 55 watt by 4 channel amp in the a chassis the size of a cd player, plus the cd player, tuner section, and all the processing gear. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. But, it says 55x4 on the box, so it must be true.

I'm outa here. time to go crusing.

 

>
>>
>>i just think its weird that the biggest
>>audio manufacturers would put out false information. i was
>>merely compairing the credibility of major companies to
>>adire audio.
>
>so you are sayinbg large companies never lie? wow... that'll
>be the day.
>
>have you ever realized a lot of the numbers on spec sheets
>put out by major companies are lies? oooh, wait, i can't say
>that, thats politcally incorrect. They are not "the full
>truth"

thats completely irrelevant, i know they lie in power ratings etc, bla bla. im talking about the technical data, they could state in their technical information that underpowering does not blow a speaker, which would make more money for them. as you know if the speaker blows its under warranty, if it did so happen that the speaker blew because of insufficenet power they could deny the warrany and blame it on abuse. educate me why would they claim that with their warranty? why would they lie about something like that?

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 11:07 PM (EST)]Here is the bio for RC and Dave Navone

http://www.autosound2000.com/aboutus.html

http://www.autosound2000.com/TechBriefsPage/Advanced.html

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 11:22 PM (EST)]so you guys believe what manufacturers say? so i guess youre the people who think pyramid amps actually put out what they are rated at.

its pretty funny how you guys go proved wrong but still dont believe it. do you have any idea how many people in the car audio world are laughing at you? this link has been posted on termpro, car audio forum, car audio talk, carsound, and probably more that im not aware of. thats where all these new people came from...despite what you want to believe, they are not the same person.

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=020418

http://www.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=010809

http://caraudiotalk.com/forums//index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=1730&s=59772b2da741e0bfa9a9 da62e0610b92

http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122231

of course you havent heard of adire audio unless you visit good audio forums or are a competitor. apparently you guys have never seen 20 page threads about car audio shops and how stupid some of them are and how they havent even heard of subs like the idmax and how they think adire, elemental, and dd are just some flea market crap subs (sounds familiar to something i heard on here).

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 11:14 PM (EST)]my god! am i bad since i never heard of adire? i have heard of the others though. and yes i know pyramid and legacy is crap. 100 bucks for 2000 thousand watts isnt the best quality.(jensen is crap also) ask optikal about it. o and by the way im so intimidated by the whole audio world laughing at me on the internet haha. i am letting the new info in and exploring new ideas, i may change sides but i would like to see further argument.

 

rbrendel-
If it matters to you, not only have I been doing car audio for the past ten years... but I am now co-founder of an audio company manufacturing high end gear. I suppose that would make me part of "industry"...
And you certainly know my standpoint on this.. if not, scroll up and reread at least my last post.

I am interested in where you would gather your information from, saying that "people in industry" support your theories?
I haven't met a soul who would do anything but laugh amusedly at the concept itself...
Until some of those people laughing (there are quite a few threads about the car audio forum community pointing to this thread as an amusing off-topic break) pointed in this thread's direction (ie. "Hehe.. can you believe this guy?")

These popular forums (www.CarAudioForum.com, www.CarAudioTalk.com where I am a moderator, and others) are also known hangouts for industry involved people, be they CEO's, presidents, engineers, designers, or involved competitors.


>
>just for the record, what is your relation to honkeywhatever
>and the other new users on the site? i would like to know,
>tell me that and ill shutup. just curious.
>
You would really promise such a thing?
Somehow I doubt you will keep that promise...
But anyways, he is a regular on both of those forums mentioned above, that's the only way that I know him.
HonkeyTonkMonkey, I don't know who he is personally.
I assumed he was a regular here on your forum.
Funny guy, big props for some floor banging gotta-show-the-wife posts, btw...


Once again, my suspicion is that any material put out by "the industry" is coming from one of two places:

1) The marketing department. These aren't car audio people, these are advertising people, who want you to buy a bigger amplifier if for no other reason than because it is more expensive than the smaller amplifier. Is the marketing department the people you want to listen to for technical opinions?

2) The tech department, who would not be stating that simply having a smaller amplifier would damage your subwoofer.
I am confident that any material would indicate something along the lines of "trying to set your gains high on your smaller amp because you wish you had a larger amp and you feel that your subwoofer should be capable of getting louder can result in clipping your amp which could result in damaging your subwoofer"
If you read it, and came away with any other impression, you should go back and read it more closely.. usually they word public documents with a pleasant lack of technical speak, written for the layman, should be an easy re-visit if you read carefully.

 

how in the hell was i supposed to know that a little argument was going to be posted all over the internet. i could care less but its weird how people have so much time on their hands. i guess it was so important that people had to take it this far.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-10-03 AT 11:26 PM (EST)]>my god! am i bad since i never heard of adire?

no, youre bad because youre talking out of your *** about a company you have absolutely no knowledge of


>i could care less but its weird how people have so much time on their hands. i guess it was so important that people had to take it this far.

youre right. why would educated people want to get rid of myths to improve the car audio community when they could just do nothing and let ignorance run rampant.......

 

A quote from Dan Wiggins....

Hi all,
Power is power. The speaker doesn't know if it's clipped, clean, or what. It knows there is power. And power is what kills speakers.

One thing to correct - a clipped signal does NOT create DC; this is an oft-repeated myth that should be eliminated. When you clip a signal, you actually INCREASE the HIGH frequency content! DC would be the opposite - removal of high frequency signal content.

In fact, the ultimate clipped signal would be strikingly similar to a square wave. A square wave is nothing more than a set of harmonically related sine waves - there is no DC component present. It is all AC.

This is, in fact, why clipped amps are literally murder on tweeters. Clipped signals contain much more high frequency energy than unclipped signals. This is readily passed by the high pass filter of the tweeter, and means the tweeter can receive 2-10X as much power as anticipated, and quickly blows out.

Anyway, too much power - clipped or unclipped - is what kills speakers. You can toast an speaker with clean or clipped signals. Just give it too much power.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio


Dan Wiggins, CEO Adire Audio

 

check out http://caraudiotalk.com/forums//index.php?s=8baac9097502e0863f7b6616de370e8d&act=S T&f=2&t=1730&st=15&#entry17810 for a tech paper from Rane linked by Manville Smith of JL Audio and another quote by DN and RC.