Lakota Sioux
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,123
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From: Fort Smith
I guess my only comment for now would be to ask if the Lakotas want to be considered under 'self rule' and want separation from the U.S., are they going to be willing to accept that this will mean they will no longer be supported by U.S. funding and will have to build an economy on their own? No matter what land resolution comes out of it, will their be import and export taxes applied when dealing with the U.S.?
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Simi Valley, CA
Originally Posted by Bdox
Point taken Bill. But wrongdoing of the past in no way justifies wrongdoing in the present.
Only the lowest of the low as far as intelligence was concerned, were used as camp guards.
In Manchuria, the Japanese had a special Germ Warfare laboratory complex...10's of 1000's of POW's died there.
On Sakhalian Island, north of Japan, the Japanese were working on their own A-Bomb!
POW's were subjected to radiation poisoning = on purpose. 10's of 1000's died.
Other torture was inflicted on POW's forced to work in, for example, coal mines and....on the Burma RR.
The film "Bridge on the River Kwai" only scratches the surface of what actually occured there.
The rations were slim and none. The beatings and torture were frequent.
Last edited by NumberDummy; Dec 28, 2007 at 12:35 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
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From: Near the racetrack, WA
Originally Posted by websthes
This nation we call Canada, incorporated in the year 1867, subjected an entire generation of Indian children to systematic sexual and physical abuse. That these people today live in squalor and poverty and cope with high rates of violence, suicide and substance abuse shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone familiar with basic human psychology.
When I lived in Alberta, the stereo-typical drunken Indian was a common sight. And incest on Indian reservations is an open secret. Bt there area also Indian reservations around Montreal. And these communities do not have a serious drug or alcohol problem. They do all sorts of things from running casinos to working on skyscrapers in New York City. Indians are well known in the construction trades for not having any fear of heights.
I think history explains the difference. The French who settled Quebec in the 1600s were missionaries, not capitalists. They paddled up the St Lawrence river and built churches from Quebec to the Ohio Valley. Converting the Indians to Christianity, learning the Indians languages and customs, learning to live off the land. Long before there was a Federal Government of the United States or Canada.
Pushing the Indians onto reservations didn't really begin until the United States and Provinces of Canada gained their independence from England, established Federal Governments, and began growing as a nation. When we were no longer an outpost of Europe, but nations in our own right, free to carry out our own ambitions.
Canada's lasting shame is sending generations of Indian children to live in residential schools where many of them died from systematic neglect and abuse.
Rape, murder, torture, neglect were the norm and many children died. How many or from what cause is not known because often death certificates were falsified to cover up the criminal acts of the administrators.
We joke about pedophile priests, because the Church has taken the fall and accepted responsibility for the manner in which they ran the government's orphanages and residential schools. But read between the lines and it's the government who knew what was happening in these schools, who funded these schools, who established these schools and the policy of assmiliation. And it was the government who ignored what was happening, because it was having the desired effect. Destroying the Indian's culture and their spirit as a nation. And with it their ownership of the land.
A century later, we still use rape and violence to get what we want. Because it works. Anyone whose had a brush with the law knows what happens in prison. If you don't do as the man tells you, he can take away your children. Put them in somebody else's home where they can be abused. In war zones there are rape rooms where the enemy is paraded around in their underwear, forced to sodomize one another. It sends a message. This is what happens if you cross the man and his government. Stay out of our way or we will **** you in the *** forever and your family will never hear from you again.
We should sympathize with the Indians, because they are victims of the Federal Government, and the Federal Government is a criminal enterprise, from Waco to the rape rooms in Iraq. Not to be trusted.
When I lived in Alberta, the stereo-typical drunken Indian was a common sight. And incest on Indian reservations is an open secret. Bt there area also Indian reservations around Montreal. And these communities do not have a serious drug or alcohol problem. They do all sorts of things from running casinos to working on skyscrapers in New York City. Indians are well known in the construction trades for not having any fear of heights.
I think history explains the difference. The French who settled Quebec in the 1600s were missionaries, not capitalists. They paddled up the St Lawrence river and built churches from Quebec to the Ohio Valley. Converting the Indians to Christianity, learning the Indians languages and customs, learning to live off the land. Long before there was a Federal Government of the United States or Canada.
Pushing the Indians onto reservations didn't really begin until the United States and Provinces of Canada gained their independence from England, established Federal Governments, and began growing as a nation. When we were no longer an outpost of Europe, but nations in our own right, free to carry out our own ambitions.
Canada's lasting shame is sending generations of Indian children to live in residential schools where many of them died from systematic neglect and abuse.
Rape, murder, torture, neglect were the norm and many children died. How many or from what cause is not known because often death certificates were falsified to cover up the criminal acts of the administrators.
We joke about pedophile priests, because the Church has taken the fall and accepted responsibility for the manner in which they ran the government's orphanages and residential schools. But read between the lines and it's the government who knew what was happening in these schools, who funded these schools, who established these schools and the policy of assmiliation. And it was the government who ignored what was happening, because it was having the desired effect. Destroying the Indian's culture and their spirit as a nation. And with it their ownership of the land.
A century later, we still use rape and violence to get what we want. Because it works. Anyone whose had a brush with the law knows what happens in prison. If you don't do as the man tells you, he can take away your children. Put them in somebody else's home where they can be abused. In war zones there are rape rooms where the enemy is paraded around in their underwear, forced to sodomize one another. It sends a message. This is what happens if you cross the man and his government. Stay out of our way or we will **** you in the *** forever and your family will never hear from you again.
We should sympathize with the Indians, because they are victims of the Federal Government, and the Federal Government is a criminal enterprise, from Waco to the rape rooms in Iraq. Not to be trusted.
The only thing I am closed minded about and it really pisses me off is a foreigner getting into a coversation and bashing my government.
You are a Canadian, your opinion doesn't count in our government. You have no vote here. Everything you said will be disregarded.
There will be no further comments from me on the issue. That's where I stand and you can argue until you are blue in the face, it will not change how I view foreigners bashing my government.
Last edited by gustav129; Dec 28, 2007 at 12:17 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 503
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Originally Posted by gustav129
I usually don't get much into political discussions, except when a non-us citizen gets involved. Politics is a lose-lose discussion. There is no winning arguement. Exactly the same as religion. A persons politics are personal beliefs. I am very conservative, but I am open minded to a liberals point of view. And if I don't like it, I'll keep my mouth shut. I expect (but usually don't recieve) the courtesy back.
The only thing I am closed minded about and it really pisses me off is a foreigner getting into a coversation and bashing my government.
You are a Canadian, your opinion doesn't count in our government. You have no vote here. Everything you said will be disregarded.
There will be no further comments from me on the issue. That's where I stand and you can argue until you are blue in the face, it will not change how I view foreigners bashing my government.
The only thing I am closed minded about and it really pisses me off is a foreigner getting into a coversation and bashing my government.
You are a Canadian, your opinion doesn't count in our government. You have no vote here. Everything you said will be disregarded.
There will be no further comments from me on the issue. That's where I stand and you can argue until you are blue in the face, it will not change how I view foreigners bashing my government.
New User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 24
It does on FTE 
and Especially with me because I have numerous connections to the US
IMO, that you don't like it is your right..but FTE is an open forum WORLDWIDE
Nothing personal Russ.....but
Get over yourself..the country of the US of A is being watched from all over the world.
Too bad you don't have an open mind about topics like your government
Canadian's are affected by it everyday.
Note:
My comments and links provided about what has happened or is happening in Canada was only for comparison purposes to what the Sioux might also incorporate.
It's called Discussion !
and Especially with me because I have numerous connections to the US
IMO, that you don't like it is your right..but FTE is an open forum WORLDWIDE
Nothing personal Russ.....but
Get over yourself..the country of the US of A is being watched from all over the world.
Too bad you don't have an open mind about topics like your government
Canadian's are affected by it everyday.
Note:
My comments and links provided about what has happened or is happening in Canada was only for comparison purposes to what the Sioux might also incorporate.
It's called Discussion !
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Pend Oreille County, WA
Originally Posted by gustav129
I usually don't get much into political discussions, except when a non-us citizen gets involved. Politics is a lose-lose discussion. There is no winning arguement. Exactly the same as religion. A persons politics are personal beliefs. I am very conservative, but I am open minded to a liberals point of view. And if I don't like it, I'll keep my mouth shut. I expect (but usually don't recieve) the courtesy back.
The only thing I am closed minded about and it really pisses me off is a foreigner getting into a coversation and bashing my government.
You are a Canadian, your opinion doesn't count in our government. You have no vote here. Everything you said will be disregarded.
There will be no further comments from me on the issue. That's where I stand and you can argue until you are blue in the face, it will not change how I view foreigners bashing my government.
The only thing I am closed minded about and it really pisses me off is a foreigner getting into a coversation and bashing my government.
You are a Canadian, your opinion doesn't count in our government. You have no vote here. Everything you said will be disregarded.
There will be no further comments from me on the issue. That's where I stand and you can argue until you are blue in the face, it will not change how I view foreigners bashing my government.
The fact that he can't vote here is no reason to disregard everything he said...
Many if not most of the Canadians I know, know more about the history of the US than a lot of US citizens.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,635
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From: The Wilderness
Originally Posted by kwob
Many if not most of the Canadians I know, know more about the history of the US than a lot of US citizens.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
Originally Posted by CobraXP
I guess my only comment for now would be to ask if the Lakotas want to be considered under 'self rule' and want separation from the U.S., are they going to be willing to accept that this will mean they will no longer be supported by U.S. funding and will have to build an economy on their own? No matter what land resolution comes out of it, will their be import and export taxes applied when dealing with the U.S.?
Internal Economics - can they support themselves? I would say that the canny exploitation of casino and race track operations gives them an edge in the entertainment and sports industries - though the U.S. (and California in particular) EPA may cringe at the notion.
The casinos were funded in part by outside interests and deals though... Much of the promotion is outside the reservations as well.
One is bound to consider "To what extent are the nations capable of self supported endeavors?"
It may be that a critical cashflow juncture has been achieved, and this is now feasible.
Another point though is what happens when/if tribal allowances outside the nations are not paid by the federal government, and must be funded by the nations themselves. Will they still have that support?
Lot of money questions, aren't there?
Can they fund and put together their own institutions for higher education?
What would an 'Indian' industrialist consider worth doing, given that the tribal council must approve their efforts?
Last edited by Greywolf; Dec 28, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 20,589
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From: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted by NumberDummy
Correct...but what the Japanese did to the POW's was far worse than any torture...before or since.
Only the lowest of the low as far as intelligence was concerned, were used as camp guards.
In Manchuria, the Japanese had a special Germ Warfare laboratory complex...10's of 1000's of POW's died there.
On Sakhalian Island, north of Japan, the Japanese were working on their own A-Bomb!
POW's were subjected to radiation poisoning = on purpose. 10's of 1000's died.
Other torture was inflicted on POW's forced to work in, for example, coal mines and....on the Burma RR.
The film "Bridge on the River Kwai" only scratches the surface of what actually occured there.
The rations were slim and none. The beatings and torture were frequent.
Only the lowest of the low as far as intelligence was concerned, were used as camp guards.
In Manchuria, the Japanese had a special Germ Warfare laboratory complex...10's of 1000's of POW's died there.
On Sakhalian Island, north of Japan, the Japanese were working on their own A-Bomb!
POW's were subjected to radiation poisoning = on purpose. 10's of 1000's died.
Other torture was inflicted on POW's forced to work in, for example, coal mines and....on the Burma RR.
The film "Bridge on the River Kwai" only scratches the surface of what actually occured there.
The rations were slim and none. The beatings and torture were frequent.
I know that YOU, of all people, are familiar with the "Rape of Nanking".....
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,635
Likes: 0
From: The Wilderness
One thing they WERE working on was the kevlar helmets and vests for us soldiers. Turns out, they were using poor workmanship and less kevlar material than they were supposed to, putting soldiers lives even more in danger.
An act of subterfuge? (j/k) let them leave the US, then we will take it back. simple as that.
An act of subterfuge? (j/k) let them leave the US, then we will take it back. simple as that.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 785
From: Simi Valley, CA
Originally Posted by cmpd1781
You forgot to mention that they used Chinese POWs for bayonet practice.....I know that YOU, of all people, are familiar with the "Rape of Nanking".....
What happened in Nanking occured throughout "The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere," what the Japanese called their conquered territory.
The Japanese also used Koreans as slave labor.
The Japanese called them hee = fleas.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,004
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From: North of Boston MA
Originally Posted by Greywolf
Now HERE come some ideas I was awaiting to spring up.
Internal Economics -....What would an 'Indian' industrialist consider worth doing, given that the tribal council must approve their efforts?
Internal Economics -....What would an 'Indian' industrialist consider worth doing, given that the tribal council must approve their efforts?
Are they, as a foreign country landlocked within the United States, going to set up their own passport and licensing system? If not, then I hope they have plenty of supplies. Since there will be no treaties between us, I would think we would have to close the border to avoid smuggling of arms and other contraband into the former reservation.
Do they plan on compensating the U.S. taxpayer for the roads and bridges (including many miles of Interstate) that are on land they plan on claiming? Or are they going to take over maintenance themselves?
Also, I am surprised that the issue of the Russian government involvement in this is being completely ignored by everyone. Very unlike people on here to bury their heads in the sand and ignore such a key piece to an issue.