Intake CFM shootout
More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: Punta Gorda, Florida
Originally Posted by Pocket
Users ask the question, and people respond with their preferences. 6637, AIS, and AFE are usually the top responses. Why? Because lots of people use them with great success. I guess in that same respect, everyone gets DP-Tuner, BTS, MBRP, and other shoved down their throat too......
Satisifed customers will spread the word, and word of mouth advertising is the best there is. Disatisified customers will also destroy a product's reputation. Want to find out if a product works, ask people who use it.
I don't agree with Gene on this topic. Why? Because this whole issue with the 6637 filter has jumped from one side of the spectrum to the other. Just recently in another thread Gene was referring to the 6637 filter and other similar ones as being too free flowing and causing a turbo destroying vortex (link to thread here). Now suddenly in this thread the exact same filter is too restrictive. There's quite a few folks here that are quick to jump the bandwagon just because a few mathmatical calculations are thrown up on the screen. Me personally, I look at real world results. The "fuzzy math" can always be manipulated, but some of those computations and theories make no sense, or are completely different than what is seen on the street, drag strip, or pull.
It's a valiant effort and takes a lot of knowledge to do the calculations that Gene does. I hate math, and I'm not very good at it so I won't even try. Engineering is not for me. However I can tell when something doesn't make sense and when something isn't relative. Like the other calculation at the beginning of the thread with humidity and the air intake. Name one single instance where that has ever happened in real life. But the calculation is there, and it's presented in a way that makes it look like the 6637 filter will be destroyed just by daily driving.
Everyone also seems to be forgetting in this thread that the 6637 is a paper filter. Guess what? Stock trucks come with a paper filter. They have the same filtering characteristics, respond the exact same way to water, dirt, whatever. Now look at the surface area of the stock paper element compared to a 6637. Common sense will tell you that the 6637 flows more. However, where's the calculations of the stock filter and airbox airflow? I guarantee it won't flow more than a 6637 filter. But so far what has been posted seems that the 6637 is so restrictive that it won't even flow enough air for a stock PSD. See where this thread has been going?
Satisifed customers will spread the word, and word of mouth advertising is the best there is. Disatisified customers will also destroy a product's reputation. Want to find out if a product works, ask people who use it.I don't agree with Gene on this topic. Why? Because this whole issue with the 6637 filter has jumped from one side of the spectrum to the other. Just recently in another thread Gene was referring to the 6637 filter and other similar ones as being too free flowing and causing a turbo destroying vortex (link to thread here). Now suddenly in this thread the exact same filter is too restrictive. There's quite a few folks here that are quick to jump the bandwagon just because a few mathmatical calculations are thrown up on the screen. Me personally, I look at real world results. The "fuzzy math" can always be manipulated, but some of those computations and theories make no sense, or are completely different than what is seen on the street, drag strip, or pull.
It's a valiant effort and takes a lot of knowledge to do the calculations that Gene does. I hate math, and I'm not very good at it so I won't even try. Engineering is not for me. However I can tell when something doesn't make sense and when something isn't relative. Like the other calculation at the beginning of the thread with humidity and the air intake. Name one single instance where that has ever happened in real life. But the calculation is there, and it's presented in a way that makes it look like the 6637 filter will be destroyed just by daily driving.
Everyone also seems to be forgetting in this thread that the 6637 is a paper filter. Guess what? Stock trucks come with a paper filter. They have the same filtering characteristics, respond the exact same way to water, dirt, whatever. Now look at the surface area of the stock paper element compared to a 6637. Common sense will tell you that the 6637 flows more. However, where's the calculations of the stock filter and airbox airflow? I guarantee it won't flow more than a 6637 filter. But so far what has been posted seems that the 6637 is so restrictive that it won't even flow enough air for a stock PSD. See where this thread has been going?
Many have quoted the filter cfm info posted on the manufacturer’s websites as proof for their assumptions. What they fail to take into context especially with the 6637 “kwik filter” is that those numbers are for its intended application. I seriously doubt that the manufacture thought that someone would use this filter as we do as an open air element and not confined in an air box. As I’ve already said you don’t know all the variables.
So to everyone that is quoting various equations and posting graphs if you can’t show that this is happening in the real world its may be fun for you, but its still pointless.
All the knowledge in the world does you little good unless it’s tempered with wisdom and a little common sense.
<O
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by mech2161
Here is what I posted! "I don't give a rats but what the filter is rated at." I don't see where I have said anywhere about the filtering ability of the 6637. Seems that every time flow is discussed and can't be discredited the poor filtering is brought up.
I haven't seen anything proven yet!
I haven't seen anything proven yet!
And I'm with you. I haven't seen anything proven yet, by either side.
Originally Posted by Pocket
Users ask the question, and people respond with their preferences. 6637, AIS, and AFE are usually the top responses. Why? Because lots of people use them with great success. I guess in that same respect, everyone gets DP-Tuner, BTS, MBRP, and other shoved down their throat too...... Satisifed customers will spread the word, and word of mouth advertising is the best there is. Disatisified customers will also destroy a product's reputation. Want to find out if a product works, ask people who use it.
I live within about 10 miles of where Bullydog Technologies was founded. If you were to ask 10 diesel pickup owners here who has the best diesel programming, guess who would get mentioned? Why? Because practically everybody around here runs their chips with great success.
How many posters have come here with K&N panel filters in their stock boxes that were completely satisfied with their performance intake until they mention it here and get hammered for using it? I'll bet I've seen over 100 posters over the years who thought they had a great filter in the K&N when they first came here.
Most people who run the 6637 don't even know what it's intended application is, and no one seems to know what it's real flow rate or filtering efficiency is. But they've read here that it is a great filter, so it must be.
How many people have had the 6637 pop off the intake and run for who knows how many miles with no filtration at all? Is that a potential problem that new posters should be aware of? Are newbies always told "it's a great filter, except for when it falls off". That's not a good quality for a filter to have, IMO.
Back 5 years ago or so when I first ran the AIS, it was something of a stepchild filter on this forum, as it was "known" around here to be too restrictive and too expensive. Then kwikkordead jumped from the 6637 to the AIS and many of the "kiwkkorites" (no offense intended kiwkk) soon followed him. The AIS is now usually quoted to be one of the better filters for our engines. What changed? Perception.
Again, just trying to bring balance to the discussion. Sacred cow or not, I like beef.
Originally Posted by sflem849
- Clux, you never stated what air filter setup you were running. I assume it is still the 6.0l that is in your gallery.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by Batgeek
Many have quoted the filter cfm info posted on the manufacturer’s websites as proof for their assumptions. What they fail to take into context especially with the 6637 “kwik filter” is that those numbers are for its intended application. I seriously doubt that the manufacture thought that someone would use this filter as we do as an open air element and not confined in an air box. As I’ve already said you don’t know all the variables.
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,448
Likes: 2,934
From: Reed Point, MT
Originally Posted by cleatus12r
I'm going to do a test on my own ONLY because this thread has gotten so "he said/she said" and because I actually have an issue with airflow (as far as I can tell).
It's not hard to do. I will spend 10 minutes tomorrow and take the 6637 off of my truck and run it down the road.
I'll let you know how it goes.
It's not hard to do. I will spend 10 minutes tomorrow and take the 6637 off of my truck and run it down the road.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Dang. I was hoping for a miracle.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
Originally Posted by clux
That is in fact my greatest point of contention with the 6637, it was not engineered for our application. As you state, we have no idea what the variables are, but I seriously doubt the manufacturer would endorse it's use in our application. Those who cite it's size as proof of it's suitablity for our application are basing that assumption on faulty logic, that bigger means better in all things.
The idea here is modifications. You modify something, sometimes with parts that were never intended for that specific application, and use them for a gain. All of a sudden there's all this hypersensitivity over this particular air filter because someone found out that it was never intended for our trucks. Holy cow what ever gave us that idea? Relax, it's common sense and everyone knows these filters were never designed for the PSD. There I spoiled the surprise. It doesn't mean that it won't work.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,405
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From: Morgantown WV
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More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: Punta Gorda, Florida
The 6637 can be a dangerous mod. I recently had to remove mine due to a lawsuit by an enraged family down the street. Just the other week I was driving down the street and while passing a school bus stop my truck sucked their small child into the intake through my modified zoodad mod. This was caused when the free flowing conical shape of my 6637 creating a vortex of doom thus sucking the child up. I’m considering counter suing due to the fact the child was drinking a big gulp at the time and it soaked my filter (it’s not water proof) causing it to collapse. Along with the collapsed filter the child also had long hair which became entangled in my turbo destroying the turbo. I’ll advise you guys how it’s going after I consult with my lawyer.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 1
Kevin
i can back you up with 6637 i dont think it makes any diference , or that big of a diference to justifie spending 400$ on AFE stage2
when i went to BTS i did run with 6637and than without 6637 with open pipe,
the gain was about 20 HP, so ho way in hell you get better flow from AFE cause the margin is to small, maybe 5-10 hp, maybe, so 400$ for 10 HP? i dont thionk so, and filtering diference ?not that big,
for those who dont know im running stage3 MiniMee and H2E with Jodys toons, did 13.9 in 1/4 mile,
here is a vid of my 1/4 mile run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiwGpb4MoIk
tell me if it flows well, it cleared up my smoke very fast, here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvrEk7kW7u8
enjoy
i can back you up with 6637 i dont think it makes any diference , or that big of a diference to justifie spending 400$ on AFE stage2
when i went to BTS i did run with 6637and than without 6637 with open pipe,
the gain was about 20 HP, so ho way in hell you get better flow from AFE cause the margin is to small, maybe 5-10 hp, maybe, so 400$ for 10 HP? i dont thionk so, and filtering diference ?not that big,
for those who dont know im running stage3 MiniMee and H2E with Jodys toons, did 13.9 in 1/4 mile,
here is a vid of my 1/4 mile run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiwGpb4MoIk
tell me if it flows well, it cleared up my smoke very fast, here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvrEk7kW7u8
enjoy
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 491
Likes: 2
From: Spicewood, TX.
I run the AFE Stage II, I have for over a year..I can tell you one thing, the opening on the filter element is 5.5"s LARGE..But then I am over 400HP on a stock charger, Guess what??? I dont have to worry if I have enough filtered air, I have numerous OA to show that it breathes clean air.
I went the low cost way as well and have $50 in the filter and $75 for the Proguard 7 filter..
I know others that are running up to 380hp on the 6637, seems to run decent..
I have one suggestion, to have a very good clamp on the neck of the filter, I have seen a number of these filters NOT sealed there and sucking dirty air..kinda like K&N all over again...
Good luck in your comparision..
I went the low cost way as well and have $50 in the filter and $75 for the Proguard 7 filter..
I know others that are running up to 380hp on the 6637, seems to run decent..
I have one suggestion, to have a very good clamp on the neck of the filter, I have seen a number of these filters NOT sealed there and sucking dirty air..kinda like K&N all over again...
Good luck in your comparision..
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 0
From: Fulltime RVer
Originally Posted by mech2161
Gene it would be easier for you to compare the different filters mentioned than waste the rest of your life trying to discredit one!
I will be on the dyno in Oct. If you want filters tested send them to me. I will pay to dyno them. Then for the disbelievers, I WILL SPIN THE ROLLERS WITH NO FILTER!
I'll ship your filter back to you.
I will be on the dyno in Oct. If you want filters tested send them to me. I will pay to dyno them. Then for the disbelievers, I WILL SPIN THE ROLLERS WITH NO FILTER!
I'll ship your filter back to you.