I need your guys outstanding math and research skills on this one. I have been having a dispute over A/M intakes with a local Diesel performance shop owner. He thinks Im not seeing peak performance from my D66 turbinator with the Tymar intake. Once I told him that the turbo flows 1050cfm vs. the stock 700cfm he said that i should be running an AFE or K&N system. I love my Kwik filter for its great protection and vast improvement in flow over the stock system but is it really keeping me from seing peak performance and power? Im at a stand still on this one. Thanks for the help gents

Cowboy Steve

 

Oh boy, here we go again!

 

My thoughts exactly!

One the shootout, you could always try this. Take your truck to the dyno, and do back to back runs, only changing the filter. There is now your answer to which one is doing a better job. Also do an open intake run.

 

You can check here for more info...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/645913-intake-2.html

I agree with the shop owner, I don't think a filter that's rated by its manufacture for only 425 CFM is the best choice for a turbo that flows 1050 CFM! I'd also be concerned about the rating "for gas and diesel engines in light to medium dust conditions." I think a lot of dust can flow into and out of an engine before it shows up on OA, and I'm going to try and do some analysis to see if I can figure out about how much that might be.

I'd also be concerned about how well that paper element holds up to moisture when flowing your 1050 CFM in even a 50% relative humidity!
My calculations show that several gal/hr flow through the filter on a humid day, and you can just double these numbers since you flow twice as much CFM. The details can be found here.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/633697-want-to-lower-egts-3.html#post4974097

 

Ok so that info leads me to my next question, how's the AFE compare?

Cowboy Steve

 

Gene, the 6637 filter may be "rated" for 425 cfm, but in real world experiences the numbers don't correlate with results.

Here's an example: A few weeks ago I was at the race track, and one of the guys there runs a low 14 second OBS PSD with a Tymar filter, and I believe he also has the D66. During the day he accidently spilled a bunch of water all over the filter, so he took it off to make more runs. His times didn't change. If it was really that restrictive, he would have seen better E/T's at the track with the filter removed.

Also I've had that filter on my truck and made numerous drives to the SC, TX, and LA coastlines (summer time humidity well over 90% all the time) and it has never affected the 6637 filter. Also driving in the rain it never got wet. The only time water can do any damage is if you spill a lot of it directly on the filter. But then again, that would do the same amount of damage to any paper filter.

 

I don't give a rats but what the filter is rated at. Gene until you can prove that it's no good you should stop saying it. I don't think there is anyone on this site on a regular basis that has a bigger charger than I do. The AFE stage II is the only brand name filter I didn't try. I haven't found anything IMO that flows any better. I will not change!

 

All I've done is to quote data from manufactures web sites. Yes, you can exceed manufactures ratings and specifications, but you do so at your own risk. I tow heavier than my truck is rated for, and I'm on my third set of carrier bearings including a complete diff rebuild as the result of that!

I don't care what you do to your truck, but I do think that new users deserve a fair and balanced answer when they log on to FTE and ask about what's the best air filter for their truck, and then immediately get the 6637 jammed down their throat! Here's some more food for thought.... I've read about a number of problems like this, which is probably why the manufacture recommends his special high torque clamp! Regarding the issue of filters collapsing, the dimensions of the 6637 filter give an outer shell area of 330.6 in2. According to the DONALDSON site a clean new filter at a flow rate of 470 CFM gives a restriction of 8" H20=0.289 psi, and this gives a (0.289*330.6)=95.55 lb of total compression loading on the outer shell. So for 1050 CFM you've got at least an 18" H20 restriction, and this gives (1050/470)(95.55)=213.5 lb, and that's for a new CLEAN filter. If that's not close to collapsing the filter, it seems that adding just a little dust to further increase the restriction might push it to the breaking point. Here's a good link to that subject, and a bunch of other good stuff as well.

Heavy-Duty Diesel Engine Air Filter Collapse
http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/06-2.htm

"A common cause of filter collapse is not paying attention to the service point recommended by the engine manufacturer. Diesel engines typically have an intake element service point of 20-30" H2O.

It is also important to inspect all filters before installation. Dented liners or end caps may result in a loss of structural integrity and filter collapse. Damage may be present but not very visible.

Operating conditions should be considered as well. For example, high levels of soot (generally from diesel engine exhaust) can plug an air filter rapidly. This may shorten the life of a filter dramatically, and if a restriction indicating device isn't monitored closely, can result in extremely high pressure drop across the filter that may cause it to collapse. Water ingestion can be a concern, too, one possibility of excessive water ingestion often not accounted for is the introduction of high levels of moisture during washing of the vehicle."

 

So does the D66 need 1050cfm to flow 1050cfm?

Cowboy Steve

 

You also have to remember that any paper filter is subject to collapse. There are also posts on this and other forums of stock filters in stock airboxes getting sucked up. Of course there's always the factors of 1) too much dirt, not enough maintenance and 2) defective filter element. It's not that the 6637 filter is weak, it's just going to work like any other paper filter.

 

Steve go to your dyno and run 2 sets of three runs. 3 with tymar and 3 with no filter but the duct work still in place. that will tell you all you need to know.

 

I'm not sure what the ultimate conclusion was as to why this test worked out the way it did, but it doesn't seem to speak too highly for using a 6637 for a high CFM application.

If you repeat a test like the above, please be sure and post the results.

 

Tim, that would mean I would have to buy the AFE system and do I really wanna do that if it dosnt make a dang bit of diffrence?

Besides that, what AFE system flows the most air, or is the best one to run?

Cowboy Steve

 

I switched from the 6637 to this AFE 24-91002 filter in my DIY AFE intake which is rated at 820 cfm(according to the website). I also use a prefilter and the AFE Torque tube. I also want to mention that I did not switch because the 6637 wasn't getting the job done, I just can't leave anything alone! Here is a couple pics:

 

no steve I meant run the tymar then run with no filter. just make sure you engine compartment is as clean as mine and maybe put some screen over the open intake and run it with no filter. it won't hurt anything to run it one run.