Will the plane fly?
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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Likes: 4
Will the plane fly?
This question is an interesing internet phenomena. I've seen the discussion on several boards. There was one thread with over 40 pages on this question. Let hear your "logic"
Here you go:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction).
Will the plane be able to take off?
Here you go:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction).
Will the plane be able to take off?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,562
Likes: 2
From: Southern MD
Uh. . . . . . Several questions or items that need clarification:
Are the planes engines running?
If they ARE running, are the throttles in the proper position to sustain flight?
Are the flaps and slats set?
Is the cockpit manned? (Or 'womaned'?
)
Is this airplane outside?
Is this airplane in a hanger?
What is the windspeed?
Is this a 'real' airplane?
Inquiring minds want to know. . . . . . .
Are the planes engines running?
If they ARE running, are the throttles in the proper position to sustain flight?
Are the flaps and slats set?
Is the cockpit manned? (Or 'womaned'?
)Is this airplane outside?
Is this airplane in a hanger?
What is the windspeed?
Is this a 'real' airplane?
Inquiring minds want to know. . . . . . .
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,475
Likes: 727
From: Calgary Canada
It's not totally clear from the question, but if one assumes that the plane is using it's engines to keep itself stationary with respect to the ground, and the air, then the plane will never lift off.
Airspeed is what creates lift, and this situation keeps the plane at 0 airspeed.
Airspeed is what creates lift, and this situation keeps the plane at 0 airspeed.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 796
Likes: 1
From: KCMO
This thing has been run into the ground on jeepforum. Here's a question that may shed some new light on it: Does the conveyor in any way affect the air speed?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,283
Likes: 0
From: Racine county, WI
Guys..........A plane uses air to move not wheels!!!
The conveyor can move all it wants but the plane will still take off. It's impossible for it to hold it back. You could have the conveyor run at double the speed backwards and it still won't hold it back. The friction that the conveyor would create with the wheels on the plane will never be enough to hold back the thrust of the propulsion.
Trick question.........move on. Sadly I've seen this question take several pages and months to die out and some people still never get it.
The conveyor can move all it wants but the plane will still take off. It's impossible for it to hold it back. You could have the conveyor run at double the speed backwards and it still won't hold it back. The friction that the conveyor would create with the wheels on the plane will never be enough to hold back the thrust of the propulsion.
Trick question.........move on. Sadly I've seen this question take several pages and months to die out and some people still never get it.
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Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by OSin86
Guys..........A plane uses air to move not wheels!!!
The conveyor can move all it wants but the plane will still take off. It's impossible for it to hold it back. You could have the conveyor run at double the speed backwards and it still won't hold it back. The friction that the conveyor would create with the wheels on the plane will never be enough to hold back the thrust of the propulsion.
Trick question.........move on. Sadly I've seen this question take several pages and months to die out and some people still never get it.
The conveyor can move all it wants but the plane will still take off. It's impossible for it to hold it back. You could have the conveyor run at double the speed backwards and it still won't hold it back. The friction that the conveyor would create with the wheels on the plane will never be enough to hold back the thrust of the propulsion.
Trick question.........move on. Sadly I've seen this question take several pages and months to die out and some people still never get it.
LMAO!!! While you are 100% correct, it took my feeble mind hours to comprehend it.
The fact that the aircraft wheels are not propelling the craft is the key.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,043
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by 00BlueOvalRanger
Uh. . . . . . Several questions or items that need clarification:
Are the planes engines running?
If they ARE running, are the throttles in the proper position to sustain flight?
Are the flaps and slats set?
Is the cockpit manned? (Or 'womaned'? )
Is this airplane outside?
Is this airplane in a hanger?
What is the windspeed?
Is this a 'real' airplane?
Inquiring minds want to know. . . . . . .
Are the planes engines running?
If they ARE running, are the throttles in the proper position to sustain flight?
Are the flaps and slats set?
Is the cockpit manned? (Or 'womaned'?
)Is this airplane outside?
Is this airplane in a hanger?
What is the windspeed?
Is this a 'real' airplane?
Inquiring minds want to know. . . . . . .
Assume that there is a well trained, highly experienced aircrew with thousands of hours combined air time with this model aircraft. Also assume their intention is to fly the plane, so they are doing everything necessary and proper to execute a takeoff.
No, the plane is not real. Assume perfect situations for all aspects. Complete friction between tire surface and treadmill/runway. Perfect, 0 friction bearings in the wheels. Tires that cannot explode under extreme rotational speeds. ETC (IE Whatever else you have to assume to prevent parts of the plane from breaking and interfering with the simplifed scenario presented).
ALL other assumptions needed to sustain the problem experiment, please make them yourself. State those assumptions if necessary. AND THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 1
From: Milky Way Galaxy
I love this question. Especially on a truck website where the vast majority of peoples real world experience deals with propelling a vehicle by the wheels and not through pushing on air. It's like sticking peanut to the roof of a dog's mouth (not that I ever tried that, I saw it on America's Funniest Home Videos).
(I will give a hint to anyone that refuses to believe that the plane will fly: The wheels are only there to reduce friction between the ground and the plane and they provide exactly zero propulsion)
(I will give a hint to anyone that refuses to believe that the plane will fly: The wheels are only there to reduce friction between the ground and the plane and they provide exactly zero propulsion)
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by EnviroCon
I love this question. Especially on a truck website where the vast majority of peoples real world experience deals with propelling a vehicle by the wheels and not through pushing on air. It's like sticking peanut to the roof of a dog's mouth (not that I ever tried that, I saw it on America's Funniest Home Videos).
(I will give a hint to anyone that refuses to believe that the plane will fly: The wheels are only there to reduce friction between the ground and the plane and they provide exactly zero propulsion)
(I will give a hint to anyone that refuses to believe that the plane will fly: The wheels are only there to reduce friction between the ground and the plane and they provide exactly zero propulsion)
Ouch.........that hurt!!! I actually have a little aero experience and it still screwed with me for a while!!
There's a video somewhere that has a rubberband powered (propeller)plane on a treadmill.............pretty conclusive that the plane will fly.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Aztrainer
No, If the plane's thrust/movement is equaled to the belt moving then there weill be no lift crated by the wings. Thus if there is no lift you have a really expensive car.
What you, and a few others, are not accepting (neither was I) is that the plane absolutely is moving forward and creating airspeed....the moving runway has nothing to do with impeding forward progress.