Will the plane fly?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
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From: Drummonds, TN USA
Let's try this then -
The airplane is on a sheet of ice (such as a glacier) that is sliding forward ever faster.
Now, assuming the propellers are turning (OR the jet engines burning) what happens?
The airplane is on a sheet of ice (such as a glacier) that is sliding forward ever faster.
Now, assuming the propellers are turning (OR the jet engines burning) what happens?
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 194
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From: Orange County, California
Man I had to think about that after posting a wrong answer on the first page. The plane will fly because the conveyer has no effect on the atmospheric conditions that the airplane is actually operating in.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
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From: Drummonds, TN USA
I still like the inclusion of the idea that the conveyor may exceed it's rated speed and self-destruct. Thus ending the conversation, unless the plane can take off on top of the remains.
Blowing the tires might also put an end to it, but if the plane is moving at 120mph, the conveyor will run at 240mph - the tires might just handle it.
A 150% factor is often used as a safety cushion.
Blowing the tires might also put an end to it, but if the plane is moving at 120mph, the conveyor will run at 240mph - the tires might just handle it.
A 150% factor is often used as a safety cushion.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 925
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From: northwest,sc
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
See now you're just closing your mind...........your hand IS the prop/jet.
The plane will move forward because the propulsion is not coming from the wheels............I think you may be the last one not to get it....but I have confidence you'll grasp it in the next couple pages...
The plane will move forward because the propulsion is not coming from the wheels............I think you may be the last one not to get it....but I have confidence you'll grasp it in the next couple pages...
I am however hard headed.
This was brought up when I was in Tech school learning to work on aircraft and that was 44 years ago.
Someone ask that very same hypothetical question. After a couple of days of exter studying so we could discuss this in class the instructors and pilots got their heads togeather and decided there was no way this priticular plane would take off. Maybe my mind is closed after all. I still don't think it will fly.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,283
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From: Racine county, WI
Originally Posted by Greywolf
Blowing the tires might also put an end to it, but if the plane is moving at 120mph, the conveyor will run at 240mph - the tires might just handle it.
Originally Posted by Chugalug
After a couple of days of exter studying so we could discuss this in class the instructors and pilots got their heads togeather and decided there was no way this priticular plane would take off. Maybe my mind is closed after all. I still don't think it will fly.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
Probably because back then they didn't have moly grease, the wheel bearings would fry, the plane have it's gear ripped out behind it, and be slung all over the desert or wherever...
I don't think that's a factor anymore.
If the plane is moving @ 120mph the conyer will be moving @ 120mph making the wheels turn @ 240mph.
Oh good point... (I neglected to add: "In Relation to the Aircraft". Sorry about that.)
I don't think that's a factor anymore.
If the plane is moving @ 120mph the conyer will be moving @ 120mph making the wheels turn @ 240mph.
Oh good point... (I neglected to add: "In Relation to the Aircraft". Sorry about that.)
Last edited by Greywolf; Jan 4, 2007 at 05:14 PM.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 29,941
Likes: 46
From: Drummonds, TN USA
Now here is a thought:
Is the speed in relation to actual position, or position over the conveyor itself?
If it is in relation to the position on the conveyor strip - then any "REAL" forward movement at all must increase the conveyors speed geometrically....
I wonder how fast a conveyor can go?
But it's all theoretical.
Is the speed in relation to actual position, or position over the conveyor itself?
If it is in relation to the position on the conveyor strip - then any "REAL" forward movement at all must increase the conveyors speed geometrically....
I wonder how fast a conveyor can go?
But it's all theoretical.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Originally Posted by Chugalug
That is exactly where it comes from. But "I" can't tell you that. The belt is turning the wheels in the reverse direction keeping the plane from gaining any foreward speed. The belt matches the speed of the wheels.
I typed this real slow so you might understand it.
I typed this real slow so you might understand it.
Last edited by andym; Jan 4, 2007 at 06:13 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Fixed. 
Sorry to anyone who read that.
I think the people who don't "get" this have a hard time understanding the difference between propulsion being applied to the ground and propulsion being applied to the air around the vehicle.
Expanding on the hovercraft example, think about these two examples:
1 - You have a boat with a traditional propeller. The propeller spins, and the boat moves. Let's say the boat is moving upstream at 20 mph, against a current of 5 mph. In a perfect world with no friction between the hull and the water, the net speed is 15 mph. If we increase the current to 20 mph, the boat comes to a standstill. The prop is still moving, but the boat isn't. This is what people who don't get it think what is happening to the plane.
2 - Instead of a boat, consider a hovercraft under the same circumstances. Now, the current speed doesn't affect the boat. 5mph current, 20mph current, 100 mph current, the boat still moves upstream at 20 mph.
Ask yourself why the speed of the current affects the boat and not the hovercraft - now apply it to the plane vs. the car.
If you were to put a car on the conveyor belt next to the plane, you could use the analogy that the plane is to the hovercraft as the car is to the boat.
Sorry to anyone who read that.I think the people who don't "get" this have a hard time understanding the difference between propulsion being applied to the ground and propulsion being applied to the air around the vehicle.
Expanding on the hovercraft example, think about these two examples:
1 - You have a boat with a traditional propeller. The propeller spins, and the boat moves. Let's say the boat is moving upstream at 20 mph, against a current of 5 mph. In a perfect world with no friction between the hull and the water, the net speed is 15 mph. If we increase the current to 20 mph, the boat comes to a standstill. The prop is still moving, but the boat isn't. This is what people who don't get it think what is happening to the plane.
2 - Instead of a boat, consider a hovercraft under the same circumstances. Now, the current speed doesn't affect the boat. 5mph current, 20mph current, 100 mph current, the boat still moves upstream at 20 mph.
Ask yourself why the speed of the current affects the boat and not the hovercraft - now apply it to the plane vs. the car.
If you were to put a car on the conveyor belt next to the plane, you could use the analogy that the plane is to the hovercraft as the car is to the boat.
Senior User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Virginia Beach
This has been the best laugh I've had in a good long while. I can't wait until some of our imbibing bretherin get involved in this a little later in the evening. 
Why don't we add a wind tunnel to the mix just for fun?
Dan
Why don't we add a wind tunnel to the mix just for fun?
Dan