Will the plane fly?
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 1
From: Milky Way Galaxy
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
I actually have a little aero experience and it still screwed with me for a while!!
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by EnviroCon
It messes with most people (me included). I first had this brain teaser way back in college physics 100. But the point of the problem wasn't to teach us physics, it was meant to teach us the difference between common sense and sense, as our Professor put it. Common sense being what we believe will happen based on our own life experience. And sense being what well established and tested Physical Laws tell us is going to happen. And that often times common sense can be waaaaaaaay off!
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by ag-ford-4x4
yes, it won't fly. The only thing moving is the wheels.
LOL!!!..............Note to self, do not go to Texas A&M to study physics (or common sense)........
[or sentence structure]
Government Teat-sucker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 9,748
Likes: 1
From: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
What you, and a few others, are not accepting (neither was I) is that the plane absolutely is moving forward and creating airspeed....the moving runway has nothing to do with impeding forward progress.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 1997
Posts: 23,165
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From: Enjoying the real world.
Physics dictates it will take off and the only effect will be the wheels will spin faster.
Imagine you're on a tricyle on a treadmill and someone is pulling you forward with a rope (ie, thrust). You move forward despite there being a treadmill. The only difference between being pulled forward on unmoving ground and on a treadmill is the wheels will move slightly faster. While this creates some drag, it's an incredibly small amount in comparison to the thrust applied.
Likewsie, a plane is creating thrust against the momentum of the earth, not against the treadmill. The treadmill's only effect will be an increase in wheel speed.
Imagine you're on a tricyle on a treadmill and someone is pulling you forward with a rope (ie, thrust). You move forward despite there being a treadmill. The only difference between being pulled forward on unmoving ground and on a treadmill is the wheels will move slightly faster. While this creates some drag, it's an incredibly small amount in comparison to the thrust applied.
Likewsie, a plane is creating thrust against the momentum of the earth, not against the treadmill. The treadmill's only effect will be an increase in wheel speed.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 925
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From: northwest,sc
The engines pull or push the plane foreward. Depending on prop or jet.
The wheels are freeturning, this allows the thrust from the engine or prop to move the plane to attain foreward speed.
If the belt turns and matches the speed of the wheels there will be no airflow above and below the wings to create lift. It will not move.
No it will not take off.
Yeah I used to work on airplanes but we never tried this.
The wheels are freeturning, this allows the thrust from the engine or prop to move the plane to attain foreward speed.
If the belt turns and matches the speed of the wheels there will be no airflow above and below the wings to create lift. It will not move.
No it will not take off.
Yeah I used to work on airplanes but we never tried this.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
This was debated once before, and led to a heated discussion.
The plane flies, even though most people think it won't. Mainly because people think of a plane as a car where the wheels apply power to the ground. A plane does not work that way - the power is applied to the air around it via the jet engines. Thus the speed and direction of the wheels are irrelevant to the problem.
Edit: think of the forces involved. The engines are at full throttle, so they will apply force to the plane in the forward direction. In order for the plane not to fly, there would have to be an equal force in the opposite direction. Where does this force come from?
The plane flies, even though most people think it won't. Mainly because people think of a plane as a car where the wheels apply power to the ground. A plane does not work that way - the power is applied to the air around it via the jet engines. Thus the speed and direction of the wheels are irrelevant to the problem.
Edit: think of the forces involved. The engines are at full throttle, so they will apply force to the plane in the forward direction. In order for the plane not to fly, there would have to be an equal force in the opposite direction. Where does this force come from?
Last edited by andym; Jan 4, 2007 at 02:54 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,074
Likes: 1
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by Chugalug
The engines pull or push the plane foreward. Depending on prop or jet.
The wheels are freeturning, this allows the thrust from the engine or prop to move the plane to attain foreward speed.
If the belt turns and matches the speed of the wheels there will be no airflow above and below the wings to create lift. It will not move.
No it will not take off.
Yeah I used to work on airplanes but we never tried this.
The wheels are freeturning, this allows the thrust from the engine or prop to move the plane to attain foreward speed.
If the belt turns and matches the speed of the wheels there will be no airflow above and below the wings to create lift. It will not move.
No it will not take off.
Yeah I used to work on airplanes but we never tried this.
Man, That's EXACTLY how I explained it.........when I was wrong
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: northwest,sc
I can see this one comeing from a mile away.
When I was in the AF I flew in C-130,s.
We would takeoff from dirt runways on many occasions and they were what we called Assault Takeoffs.
The brakes would be locked and power applied to the engines untill the wheels started to drag in the dirt, then the brakes were released and we got jerked back and picked up foreward speed.
I have ran the engines to take off power on a cement ramp with the brakes locked and chocks in place and the plane didn't move.
C-130,s use skids or snow skees in Alaska in the winter.
When I was in the AF I flew in C-130,s.
We would takeoff from dirt runways on many occasions and they were what we called Assault Takeoffs.
The brakes would be locked and power applied to the engines untill the wheels started to drag in the dirt, then the brakes were released and we got jerked back and picked up foreward speed.
I have ran the engines to take off power on a cement ramp with the brakes locked and chocks in place and the plane didn't move.
C-130,s use skids or snow skees in Alaska in the winter.