i believe kubota is the world's leader in the same diesel market from idk real small, all the way to 100hp i think kubota has it covered.

 

I definately hear you Dave. I bleed Ford Blue, but when it came time to buy a new rig in December we got an 05 Cummins. Just like you we had to buy a Dodge to get the Cummins and That is a sacrafice we were willing to make. Some here say The truck will fall apart around it. But in the end that engine will still be pushing a broken heap of a dodge, assuming they do indeed fall apart as has been said in this thread previously. I Figured it best to be comfortable with the piece of the vehicle that makes it go, rather than a truck whose engine doesn't have the same reputation but has a plush seat, or a nicer heater ****.
I am still very torn because I would rather be in the Ford That is for sure, but I would rather be Cummin' than Strokin'. Anyway ours sits next to, a Ranger, an F100, a Taurus, and an Escort.

 

I've heard people don't like the seats in the dodge, they seemed fine to me. Granted I've only been on 2 10 mile test drives. I will tell you they feel better then the 82 ford motorhome I just sold and the 87 gm van i'm getting rid of. I'm more conserened about breaking down/ being reliable. Power seats? don't want them, fancy leather?nope..

Hopefully the next ford diesel will be better and I can get one in a few years. I was going to go with the ford v10 but the dodge is only going to cost me 2k more for their diesel. Maybe the 450 will come with a bed as well! That would be sweet.

 

IMHO, the Cummings has had issues just like the 6.0L PSD. The Cummings does 'seem' to last longer (Million Miler Club members), but with its narrow power band, doesn't perform as well as a 6.0L PSD. Given the engine, drivetrain, and of course the truck, I'd take a Ford PSD even if a Cummings was offered.

My $.02.

 

The cummins has the same powerband as the 6.0. Just at a lower rpm. So while the 6.0 will be faster. The cummins will have better driveability.

 

Ok, first off, we're not talking about all sales all total ever in anything, we're talking about in the light truck market, and in this market Cummins gets spanked day in and day out by the PSD as far as sales go...
And exactly how long term is this test? 3 years? That's about as long as they could have tested the 6.0, because, as we all know, the 7.3 PSD has a 98% or higher success rate, so there's really no way that any engine can be "twice" as relaible...
What's the relevance of looking past the light duty market, isn't that what we're talking about? What do semis have to do with our discussion here?
Now if eveyone had the logic that the engine was better because it's been used longer by a certain company, then we'd all still be running flatheads...You don't think technology has advanced since the Cummins was developed? Ford stopped using the 7.3 PSD because of reasons beyond their control, and it's going to be the same with stricter emissions by the time the new diesel comes out...Which the Cummins doesn't have to adhere to because it's a medium duty engine as opposed to a light duty engine...So at least I am glad that Ford tries to use an engine that was designed for this application rather than just stuffing an engine into their truck and hoping that the name of the engine will sell the truck...

 

I definately understand the top sentence if only for my last project. I took a 360 V8 that ran out of my 72 F100 and Put a built 300 I6 in it's place. Most people have this Idea that if it's a V8 it is absolutely better because it has 8 instead of 6.

Navistar stopped using the 7.3 for the same reason Cummins stopped using the 12 Valve. The difference being that Cummins only redesigned the head, and fuel system on the same engine. That was all that was necessary for emmissions plus they added power to compete.

You are the one (FL) who has talked about wise investments this whole thread, and now you insinuate that Dodge/Cummins Cheated because they used a Medium duty and don't have do adhere to as many emissions requirements as the LD PSD. That seems to have been the wisest choice they could have made. Infact I think that is why ford stopped making the F100, too many emmissions requirements, so they made a heavier duty half ton (F150). As far as "Stuffing an engine into their truck and hoping that the name of the engine will sell the truck" It is more than hoping, They do sell themselves. 70% of all freight moved on I-5 is moved by a Cummins engine of one sort or another According to an ODOT Survey in 2004. If they can do that they're good enough for me in a pickup.

As I said I am a Ford Man, but when you're talking about Diesels, they have nothing to do with Ford, Chevy Or Dodge, other than a contract. What we're debating here is Diesel Engines. And that is More of a Cummins, Navistar, Izuzu debate. So I guess what I am trying to say is I whole heartedly endorse Ford, But I do the same for Cummins, Not dodge.

If anyone doesn't like the Cummins because it can't perform, Checkout www.cumminsracing.com
http://www.scheiddieselmotorsports.com/ScheiddieselMotorsports/drag.html
"Built to achieve 200 MPH in 1/4 mile"

Why are there no PSD dragsters?

Someone in a previous post called it "Cummings" several times. For those of you new to the Diesel World there is no G in Cummins.

Something else I would like to ask is why, if the Powerstroke is so wonderful is there no dodge/powerstroke conversion websites? We all know about www.fordcummins.com

Go Ford!

 

Even though I live in Ford country, most of the older diesel pickups I see (and hear) are Dodges.

 

Cummins does have to meet the emissions of a truck with a gvwr of over 8800 lbs just like the others. It being a medium duty engine just means itll have less blowby at 200k miles.

The long term test was for the 7.3. The 6.0 does not have as good a track record as the 7.3 did. So the cummins was twice as reliable as the 7.3 in 01.

 

98% of all POWERSTROKE diesel equipped Ford pickups are still on the road.............................................. ......The rest made it home!!!!!!!! jk

 

Now Be Nice

 

No matter what you own, you will have problems...
It seems if you want less problems, buy the Cummins...
("engine wise, of course")
1997 Dodge2500 versus 1997 FordF250
Clubcab to Supercab. Turning radius goes to the Dodge, by far.
Also the rear seating is much roomier in the Dodge.
Just some interesting points when comparing these trucks.
Not trying to feed a flaming war, I'm only giving my facts that I found in looking at two vehicles here. If we keep to the facts people will find our posts more useful too. In general it hasn't gotten too bad, so here's a reminder and enjoy.

 

Good readin' Steve. Keeps the brain going in the right direction.

Bob K.

 

When speaking of reliability, we shouldn't be saying Powerstroke and Cummins in the same sentence. The Cummins is beyond reliable where as the 6.0 has yet to establish a trusted name in the diesel market. The way it looks now, the 6.0 will never establish itself as reliable becase its behing replaced soon by the 6.4.

BTW. Is the 6.4 a Navistar/PS engine? Just curious.

Ford Lariat.

We are comparing the 6.0 to the 5.9. Both of these engines are offered in more than just pickup trucks. I think when comparing sales of the two, its rather important to take into account the sales in other areas. (Semis and such) We can look at how reliable the Cummins has been in the semis, and then relate that to the Cummins engines being sold in the Dodge trucks. I think its very relevant to look past one specific sector and see how an engine perfroms in other areas.

You need to come to terms with the fact that 6.0 isn't the best in Light Duty diesel market. It is clearly outdone by the Cummins in more than one area. Ford wouldn't be replacing it if they thought otherwise. They know they have a dud on their hands.


Best as always.

 

I dont know if I should belive these people saying "Dodges fall apart, they are crap". How do they know? Maybe they saw a peice of cracked trim on a dodge once in there life so they now assume that they fall apart? Heres my experince with dodge. We have a 1990 Dodge D-250 2WD 4 spd, 318 V8. It is a work truck in every sense of the word, the interior is almost like new, though there is some cracked plastic. All switches, gauges and lights work like new. The truck has over 200,000 miles on it, yet it has great compression, (most cylinders were over 125psi), leaks very little oil, blows a little smoke going down the road (the tree huggers flip me the bird sometimes), and has great power, considering its a small 318. This truck is nothing to get excited about, its plain jane and boring, but it is a truck I have come to respect as it is reliable and durable and gets the job done. Now if I was a close minded idiot I could say dodge quailty is ten times better then Ford quaitly, as I see many 1990 Fords with interiors that are detoriated and look like crap, with engine that run like crap. But I know better, quaitly varys with diffent models and styles. My 66 beats all the modern Fords and Dodges weve had as far as quaitly goes, but that doseant mean Ford is better either.

So to the people saying that dodges trucks fall apart, how do you know? For all the dodge trucks that supposedly "fall apart around the engine", I could show you a Ford and GM that look just as bad if not worse. I really dont see much of a differnce in quailty between the big three as far as modern HD trucks go. I do know that all three have chessy ball joints that wear out in 30,000 miles, and less then desirable 4WD systems.