I'll stand with BigDaddy on this one. Lariat is a good guy, and a die-hard fan and I respect both. But if Dodge said 2+2=4 he would argue that, and thats not a joke.

We all know that the Cummins is worthy of sitting in any truck. As far as diesels go the Cummins is far more reliable than the PSD and Duramax. 15 years of use will tell you that. How many times have GM, and Ford switched diesels while Dodge continues to stick with the 5.9? Ford has been in this business for a long, long time. If they though the 6.0 was a great engine they would not be changing to a 6.4 like they are going to shortly. And when that 6.4 comes out Dodge will still be using the 5.9. That right there should hit home no matter how blind or brand loyal you may be.

Its ridiculous to think that the 6.0 is as reliable as the Cummins. And you can show me reccals until you are blue in the face, its not going to change the way I and many others eel about the situation.

A short time ago, FordLariat provided links to Cummins/Ram reccals. He does back up what he says. Having said that, many of the recalls that were examined had anything to do with the Cummins engine. Things goning wrong with the rest of the truck has absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of the Cummins engine. We can compare recalls all day long, they don't paint a very accurate picture anyway.

Talking to gear-heads, car fanatics, mechanics, and last but not least, the ones driving the trucks daily. Towing and hauling with the diesel day after day. The majority will choose the Cummins engine regardless of what truck its in. People say that the Dodge truck will fall apart around the Cummins. Thats a fair statement. Here is a question for you: What truck wouldn't fall apart before the Cummins? These things routinely go 350,000+k. Not too many trucks are built to last that long. And before anyone comes back with the "Dodge trucks are built like crap anyway"..."The auto trannies suck"..."The ***** fall off"...etc. Its all BS. Plain and simpe BS. The 3-gen Ram is one of the best built trucks on the road. Fit and finish is just as good as the next one. And the tranny mith that everybody harps about is a drum thats been beaten to death. Every car company has an issue somewhere. The new Dodge trannies are just fine. In fact they are MB trannies. Just read on another truck forum that a guy just hit 375,000k on his Cummins in a 1990 Ram 2500. With ZERO issues. If anyone thinks I am lying, tell me and I'll dig up a link.

I am tired of hearing the same trash from too many people that have never even owned a Dodge truck. "The build quality sucks"..etc. Yes - we all hear horror stories about a certain truck that was a complete Lemon. Every company has Lemons. If you have a buddy that got a bad tranny in a Dodge that doesn't mean that they are all bad. Thats whats wrong. People hear a story, and then they think that anything with a certain emblem on it, weather it be Dodge, Ford, or GM, is going to burn up before you get it home from teh dealer. Its just plain wrong.

Sales do matter. So look at it this way. The Cummins can sell the truck on its own. Can the 6.0 do that? Quite possibly. But not likely as much as the Cummins. There have been more 5.9l Cummins diesels sold than 6.0s. And thats not just for 3/4 and 1 tons either. Sales do matter, and the 5.9 has sold more. That doesn't mean that its better. It means that more people want it and/or trust it. All I can do is laugh when I hear people say: "Ford is the industry leader cuz they sell almost a million trucks year after year" Totally irrelevant when coming to a conclusion of which truck is better. There are many factors that play a part when it comes to sales. PRICE, and FLEET to name a few key ones. Truck to truck to truck, Fords are the cheapest. GMs being the most expensive. Consider those two factors for a while and see where alot of Ford's sales come from. These people that think that 1 Million people went out and bought a Ford truck last year are dillusional, and need a serious wake up call.

In closing. I think that the Cummins is a great diesel, and I think the Ram truck around is worthy of getting the job done without falling apart. Some need to wake up out of whatever dream world they are in and give some credit where its due.


Best regards.

 

Logic,
What's that..?
When I sold my 90 IDI recently it was tough. But it was time for me.
It was a great truck.
I wanted to look at a used Cummins Dodge 2500, before I considered buying a same year 97 F250 PS. Too make a long story short, I bought the Dodge. Two reasons. 1st longevity of the engine. 2nd. Turning Radius noticeably better then the same year Ford.

Yes, I am Ford blue but not a die hard.... Turning Radius, is very important to anyone that tows let alone leaves parking lots with these big rigs.
Oh the mpg's are "slightly" better with the Dodge. Now after saying this remember I was looking for something in this year, and price range at 12K. So my answer could vary depending on what is available for the money...
I feel either truck would work just fine, but that was the diff in my decision. Remember, yours may vary from person to person.
Neither is "wrong" unless, you decide it was for you.

That's my story and i'm sticking to it.... Good luck to everyone.

 

Musclecar_Fan
I agree all the way.

 

Very good post, Musclecar_Fan. I feel very similar. Recalls are a good indication of initial quality but don't show much for long term reliability. I can live with free work on recalls much easier than paying for maintenance. I have never heard of a Powerstroke engine selling a Ford, but I do know of a few instances where the Cummins sold a Ram. I am also not aware of any Dodge Powerstroke conversions although there are a few Ford Cummins jobs that I know of.

 

Dont call me stupid becuase of this question but earlier it was
said cummins 5.9 for 15 years in dodges. Well isnt fords power strokes internationals? and how long have they been incorp into
ford trucks? regardless of size 6.0/6.4/7.5/?

 

The point was that ford has been through 4 generations of engines, soon to be on their fifth. While dodge has had the same engine.

 

Well then i would say ford is keeping up with technology and
staying ahead of the game where as dodge is using old tech
and really lacking. I think dodge is using the saying if it aint
broke dont fix it. Where ford is saying build a better mouse
trap and stay ahead.

 

i think the cummins had a far superior mouse trap from the begining and continue to tweek it. i mean they started with the 12v and went to the 24 v and now they have the HO. they will just continue to tweek the system they have. if it isn't broke though, why would you fix it. dodge is no slouch on technology, they do what they have to and use it to keep up. i think that is why they are more reliable. they let the other people make the mistakes and then they use them and learn from them. this will give them a better initial product to the consumer rather then letting them be testers.

i think ford is still looking for a good platform base to start from in the diesel engine market. IMO ford took the cheap way out when they went back to the 6.0 rather than make the 7.3 emmisions compliant. that 7.3 had tons of untaped potential if they would have used the same technology that they did in the 6.0! the 6.0 is no slouch imagine if it had the addition 1.3 liters backing it. can you say "wow" esp if it had the 7.3 durability. just my .02

 

I thought it was the Cummins that generally came out first with new technology. This is all from a rusty memory, but weren't they the first with a turbo, the first with 4 valve heads, and the first with common rail injection? Those new Cummins engines are silent at idle compared to GM and Ford.

 

ya you are pretty much right on. recently they were not into the egr or some of the newer things i am not for sure about. i think gm was the first with the quiet idea for diesels though.

 

I'd like to point out a couple things to you since you seem to be buried in your own figmented self-delusions. The 5.9 cummins is very close in gross sales to the powerstroke. They are not only sold in light duty trucks. Also, according to a long term study by JD power and associates... the Cummins is more than twice as reliable than the PSD. So the ol cumapart bit is old and dated. Maybe the 2-stroke ones of the 70s could retain that title.

You talk like Cummins is a zit on International's *** because the PSD in Ford trucks outsells the Cummins in Dodge trucks. Cummins is the largest diesel engine manufacturer in the world(of engines over 50hp). Needless to say, Cummins sells alot more engines than International(try thinking above the light-duty market.. if you're capable).

As I've pointed out before... if the 6.0 is as great as everyone tries to make out, they wouldn't be scrapping it for the 6.4 after a 5 year run. And Ford probably isn't as happy as Dodge is, because they suffered an unreasonable loss with the buyback issues. Moreso than Dodge, because every brand has recalls of somekind or another. So the ol Cummins isn't a Cumapart anymore than the Powerstroke is a Powerjoke(PSD could also stand for piece of Edited out by Admin diesel). As pointed out by provided site. Click below.

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60bulletin.htm

 

Cat is the largest diesel engine manufacturer, not Cummins

 

Actually, I think that Isuzu is the largest diesel manufacturer worldwide. Cat is the largest in the US market. Either way, Cummins still sells more engines than Navistar does.

I will add that the 5.9 Cummins was the first diesel pickup engine to have a number of features. It was the first engine with direct injection, by about 5 years. It was the first with a turbo by 3 years. It was the first with an intercooler by about 8 years. this was not "new" technology at the time, but GM and Ford's diesel engines did not have any of those things.

Right now, the Cummins is the only engine that can pass emissions standards without egr. The only part of the engine that has not changed over the 16 years is the general bottom end design. Why would it be behind in technology?

 

Heres how it was put to me. Isuzu makes the most diesel engines. Cummins makes the most over 55hp. Cat doesnt represent the market where the sales would be the highest. Big diesels are lucky to sell 50k units a year. Wether or not cat makes more money I couldnt tell you. But cummins builds more engines.

"Cummins Inc., is the world’s largest designer and manufacturer of Diesel engines ranging from 55 to 3500 horse power."
http://www.uae.cummins.com/me/pages/...s/ua/index.cfm

 

Well I'm going to be the first person ever in my family to buy a Dodge.

There is only one thing I like better about the dodge and that is the fact that it has the Cummins. THAT'S IT. I'm hopeing in a few years Ford will have a diesel that I can trust. If I could get the 7.3 I'd do it.

The Cummins '05 is totally silent when inside the cab. Only noise I could hear is the turbo whining.

Oh well I'll park it next to my Mustang and hope some Ford will rub off onto it....