Cummins dropped the ball when they went with Dodge? Whay are they still dealing with Dodge then? I'm scared to see your explanation for this.

The Cummins/Dodge contract expires in 08 I think. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chrysler play this one smart and offer 2 diesel options after that. Renew the Cummins contract, but affer a Benze diesel in the Rams at teh same time. Mercedes makes some of the best diesels in the world. Or they could go with detroit diesel since DaimlerChrysler owns them.


Best as always.

 

i thought detroit diesel was gm owned?

 

Nobody else wants them, that's why, Ford and GM both have better engines, IMO. Evidently, they feel the same way, or they would have tried to offer Cummins engines in their trucks.
You're telling me that Cummins, a respectable business, is satisfied selling a measly 1/15 of what they could have sold? Right, that's what they wanted to do in the first place, not make money...That's why they got in this business is to make sure people got good engines, not make money...
I believe they tried to partner with Ford and Ford went with somebody that was going to do some research and develop an engine specifically for this application, not some company that's just going to sell the same engine to everybody, see, they wanted an engine matched to the truck...Cummins wouldn't do this, so Ford went with someone else...I can't imagine that Dodge was the second choice, either, because GM also sells about 99 billion times more trucks than Dodge, so I'm sure that crossed the minds of the bean counters at Cummins, too...But they still decided that they didn't want to sell that much, they just wanted a VERY miniature scale of the truck market to operate on becaue they're satisfied with 1/10 or so of what they could be making...Right
Are you honestly saying that it would not have been a better business decision to sell trucks with Ford rather than Dodge? Do you really believe that?

 

I have to agree with fordlariat here, but Ford has been partnered with IH/Navistar for a long time. It's unlikely that Ford would have jeopardized their relations to take an offer from cummins at a time when diesel trucks werent so fashionable to people as they are today. If Ford or anyone else at the time(1990ish) had known how popular diesels would become with the general non working truck buyers of the future, it might well be possible to speculate that we would have ford SD's or GM HD's with Cummins motors today....

 

The reason that Cummins began selling engines to Dodge and not Ford is very simple. Dodge was the only manufacturer that did not have a diesel or was looking for a diesel at the time, so Cummins made an offer to them (probably around 1987, a few years after the IH 6.9 and GM 6.2 began their run in pickups). The 5.9 had been used in Case tractors and some other apps. for a few years and Cummins figured that it would be a perfect fit for a pickup. Although, IMO, the diesel engines that Ford and GM had at the time were crap, they still had an engine, and thus the offer was not made to either.

One thing to think about is that Dodge diesel sales have slowly climbed and Ford has lost more and more market share over the years. Also, the Dodge diesel has outsold the GM diesel every year but one (2002, just like the chart indicates). I am sure that Cummins would have sold more units had the 5.9 been offered in the Ford or Chevy, but it was not, and Chrysler is lucky because of that. I know that, in the bottom of your hearts, you Furd guys wish that you had a Cummins, but you just have to live with what you've got and quit worrying about what might have been. Oh yeah, for any Ford guys in a bind, you might wanna check out this website............

http://www.fordcummins.com jk

 

Well, when Cummins first got a contract with Dodge, they were the only ones in a market...If Ford had thought it would be a profitable idea, they would have jumped on it...No way would Cummins decline Ford to go with Dodge...I seriously doubt that they didn't offer it, either, they would have been REALLY bad businessmen to not even want to try to go with the clear industry leader in this market...Even if Dodge were the only ones shopping, the 6.9 that Ford had then wasn't exactly the best engine ever, and if it was a profitable upgrade, Ford would have sought it out...
Also, I don't think Ford is losing anything, as their sales are going up, but the market is expanding, and a lot of people who have never had trucks like this before are now shopping for them...Now, this is where repeat buyers become relevant...Any company can fool a bunch of people once, but when they go to buy another truck, you can tell if the last one was worth their money or not, because if not, they probably won't buy another truck like they had if it wasn't...Ford leads that race, too...
Good for Dodge, bad for Cummins...

 

Dont worry, Cummins isnt going out of bussiness anytime soon.

 

When dodges contract was in jeopardy. Who came lookin? Ford did. Bought a percentage of cummins to get into bed. Eventually dodge kept the contract. Just shows that Ford was interested in the engine. Dodge was willing to pay more to keep it. This all went down before the internet became so popular. It was 11 years ago and I still remember the manuevering the companies were taking to get this engine.

If you read the which is better poll. You will see the cummins winning on a ford site. Poll a dodge site and it will be a landslide. Think about it. Just shows even us ford boys know a good engine. I would love to have a fummins.

 

Its not that Cummins didnt try the other competitors but GM and Ford already had their own diesels where as Dodge didnt and needed one. Cummins didnt do anything wrong by signing w/ MOPAR due to the fact that they arent losing any money on their deal.

 

How do you figure that Ford got a better engine Lariat? Take a look at the poll in teh Cummins VS PSD forum I started. Seems to me Ford didn't get the better engine/engines when they went with Navistar. 6.0 issues come to mind as well.

Nobody else wanted Cummins? Why did Ford take a run at them before Dodge renewed the contract 11 years ago?

I really don't see where you are coming from Lariat. I guess I get lost in all you blind brand bashing.


Best as always.

 

Seems to me that the poll shows the opinion of about 100 people, and that's not really indicative of the entire market...Ford could put Cummins in their trucks if they want, they make enough money to do that...
Prove Ford took a run at them, that's a rumor that went around the internet...I haven't seenanything anywhere to lead me to believe otherwise, according to Cummins, Ford doesn't own any of them. I haven't seen any proof otherwise.
If Ford felt the Cummins was a better engine and couldn't get them away from Dodge (yeah right), then they would have an inline 6 similar to the Cummins. Ford knows that V8 diesels are the way to go in this marketplace.
Also, if Ford guys would rather have a Cummins, and Ford knows they could sell that many more trucks, then Ford would go with Cummins. It's a business, and they are going to do what they can to make the most money that they can.
BigDaddy6969, I agree, they're definitely doing better than not being in the market at all, but if you want to sell units in this country, Dodge is the worst one to go with...Look at how much more money the company would have made if they were the standard diesel in F-250s...

 

Now c'mon, be honest. If that poll was in favor of Ford that poll you'd be on your soapbox screaming "SEE, FORD ONE, FORD IS THE BEST AND THIS POLL PROVES IT!"


Btw, I voted for the Cummins too.

 

Ford Lariat. Its not speculation. Ford bought a percentage of cummins around 93-94 when dodges contract was going to expire. After all the maneuvering. Dodge was willing to pay cummins more money for the engine. So cummins renewed with dodge. If you dig deep you can find the money trail. The internet wasnt such a big thing in 93-94 so technically it wouldnt be an internet rumor. I didnt hear the rumor on the internet, got it first hand. Except it wasnt a rumor. Ford did buy 15% interest. Its like sweet talk in the world of big business. 15% gets them on the board I think. Ford later sold its interest but the fact that they wanted in still remains true.

 

I missed that, could you provide a link? And no, I wouldn't be saying anything if the PSD was leading the poll, I see it for what it is, a poll of the people here, nowhere near indicative of the entire market.
Dodge was willing to pay more money for the engine than Ford was, which means Ford agrees me that it isn't worth it, the PSD does the job just fine, and actually, in the trucks that they are in, outperforms the Cummins...
Are you seriously saying that Ford couldn't outbid Dodge if they wanted to?
Somebody give me a link where Ford bought some of Cummins. I heard that rumor then, I still hear that rumor, and I have never seen proof...
Even if it is true, then it doesn't mean that they were trying to put their engines in the F-250s, they put the Cummins in their bigger trucks already, so an affiliation would be a good thing.

 

Denial is a wonderful thing. This isnt the only ford site where the psd lost in a poll to the ctd. Like I said. Even us ford boys can appreciate a good engine.

As to why ford would buy cummins stock. I guess youll see what you want to see. BTW when did ford start using the cummins in their mediums?