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I'm trying to get my 49 F6 back on the road and in someone else's hands... The tires are ancient but holding (tubed) air and I don't know if *anyone* will even work on these rims anymore? In any case, about 6 years ago I did a pretty thorough search of the forums here for alternative rims and the results were somewhat ambiguous. I think there was evidence then that *some* aftermarket shop was making up rims suitable for this vehicle? I also saw (and still see) reference to Dodge Motorhome 19.5" rims *maybe* working? I also see reference to moving up to 22" rims but no specific source?
Even if *I* don't replace these rims, I want to be able to point any newbie who might want to take this on in the right direction.
Unfortunately there are probably no quick fixes that come cheap. If you were wanting a long term relationship with the truck, spending money on new repop or original 22.5” tubeless wheels would make sense. But not if you are gonna flip the truck since you’d have as much spent on wheels as on the truck itself. I see from your profile that you live in NM. If there are old yards remaining in your area finding an old Dodge or IHC would yield donor safer 20” locking ring wheels. Problem there is hidden internal rust that can render them junk too. Motor home 19.5” Budd 89340s are a great fix, but yards are becoming wise to their value too. So to me selling the truck as is and being honest with the buyer might make sense. Stu
I found a local wheel shop that will weld them up to be one piece.
Or weld the centers onto another rim. Something like that.
Yeah, at $400 a pop. Fortunately, I only need 2.
But we'll see and I'll let ya all know how it works out.
Unfortunately there are probably no quick fixes that come cheap. If you were wanting a long term relationship with the truck, spending money on new repop or original 22.5” tubeless wheels would make sense. But not if you are gonna flip the truck since you’d have as much spent on wheels as on the truck itself. I see from your profile that you live in NM. If there are old yards remaining in your area finding an old Dodge or IHC would yield donor safer 20” locking ring wheels. Problem there is hidden internal rust that can render them junk too. Motor home 19.5” Budd 89340s are a great fix, but yards are becoming wise to their value too. So to me selling the truck as is and being honest with the buyer might make sense. Stu
Thanks for what sounds like a comfident concise summary of what I *thought* Iread so far... the "Motor home 19.5” Budd 89340s" is probably the most actionable. Do I understand that 20 IHC/Dodge "locking ring" rims are *also* tricky/risky to work on, or (aside from rust/damage) still reasonable? I had an old-skool tire shop nearby work on mine 10 years ago (just put in a fresh tube in one) and they had a full cage for the safety reasons... and they *might* still be willing/able to work on them, I just want to get beyond that, or help a new owner do so if they so choose. I guess this reflects why I want to pass this old beauty to someone else, I just don't have the patience (courage?) to deal with the myriad implied issues it presents even when working (nominally) well!
Lock ring 20”ers are generally safe if not damaged or badly rusted. You have to be alert to signs of rust along the seam of the disc and along the edge of the ring, and avoid those wheels. IHCs and Dodges never had widow makers. It’s easy to focus on dead motor homes in yards because they tend to be isolated from other vehicles. Avoid GM based units with 10 lugs on back and 5 on front. Fronts had blanking plates covering unused holes. Stu
This is good to hear, that someone *does* such things. I don't know if there are any standard practices *for* that type of welding job? I have a neighbor who is a pro welder for high-tech equipment, but didn't want to ask him to do something that might have implications neither of us would understand.
I am pretty sure that my local big-truck tire-shop still has a cage and is willing to mount tires (that they sell) on split rims, but at this point adding a bead-weld to the existing rim-rivet system seems like a possible improvement short of full replacement?
My rims have NO rust beyond the most surface having lived life in CO and northern NM.
Any thoughts? Any other references to doing that weldup?
How about replacement lug nuts for these beasts? I have one locked up wheel (conventional wisdom says brake shoes?) but when we tried to remove the wheel, the lug nuts are extremely frozen. We broke a 1/2" drive breaker bar and have tried an *electric* impact wrench and a 4' pipe-wrench and lots of PB catalyst (overnight) and even liberal propane (weed-burner class) heat. Only *1* nut out of the 10 front (left and right) came off (impact) and we finally resorted to *destroying* one with a grinder and a chisel.
The *threads* on the one we removed convenionally and the one we destroyed are very clean... no obvious rust, and the mating surface (centering bevel and flat) have only a minimal amount of rust! I'm guessing that maybe more acute (torch) heat might do the trick (differential expansion) but the guy helping me doesn't fully understand the concept and keeps heating the stud with the nut.
In any case I will need to replace *at least* one nut, possibly many. We haven't even tried cracking the rear ones. If I can get the one wheel rolling free and put fresh air in my ancient tires I can probably drive to the truck-tire place where they surely have everything possible to get those off. I haven't double-checked with them for replacement nuts yet.
You weren’t overlooking left hand threads on the driver side I hope. The nuts were torqued per spec to 450 (correction - ft/lbs). A 1” drive Chicago Pneumatic or similar gun will take the nuts right off. Stu
A few points - first - you didn't overlook the reverse left handed threads on the left side of the vehicle? Secondly, the torque spec on the lugs is in excess of 400 ft/lbs. A consumer/prosumer electric impact won't touch it. You need something pneumatic with like a 1" drive. I personally have not regretted getting a pneumatic impact gun, a combination Budd socket, and a porkchop. Also very helpful is a torque multiplier when I don't have access to air. T there are many branded imports similar to this that seem to work well enough for the home gamer:
Oh, and a porkchop helps separate the inner lug from the outer lug in the event they don't separate in a friendly fashion:
As for part numbers (I'm only human and some databases/cross listings have errors, so please follow up intelligently):
Great guys!
I really appreciate both responses here!
I *did* neglect the left hand threads on the left front wheel... I assumed that the front was NOT LH but from @bmoran4 's list of nuts, I am convinced...
I went through this on my first 3/4 ton 4x4 decades ago (tightening the hell out of them) but tricked myself on this one regarding the front's NOT being drive wheels!
I even brought in the one nut we *were* able to remove and hand/eye inspected it for handedness, but fooled myself doubly because the one that came off was from the right side of the vehicle!
The 500ft-lbs torque point makes sense but I'd not have guessed that *either*!
I'll look at a Torque Multiplier tool as shown in your post, we are working on this way out in the field where it was parked with no big air, etc.
Time to eat more crow here I think (like with the LH thread nonsense I tripped over)!
I have been calling my rims "widowmakers" (see subject line) and I think I was wrong. My rims are neither *split* nor *locking ring* if I understand the terminology correctly. I guess I assumed (*** - you - me?) that *all* rims of this era (1949) were one or the other, but careful inspection of my spare 20" wheel shows it is *neither*... though the rims ARE 2 piece but the 2 pieces are riveted together.
Is it possible my rims are just fine for longevity/safety (they have nothoing more than surface rust) and I could just put a full set of fresh tires/tubes all the way around? I think the ones on there are 8.25x20 but weather checked/aged (maybe up to 30 years old now?)
It does have rivets, but the actual split is at essentially the "drop center" with a solid ring that assembles via rotating through a notch in the lips:
Rims that have a split lock ring are fine (if in serviceable condition). You can see the ring with the split at about the 10-o-clock position.
If I understand what I'm seeing in your pic, it looks like the drop-center was a separate piece from inner and outer rim, the inner was riveted to the center but the outer is held entirely by occlusion and assembly depends on their being notches in both center and outer to "rotate" into holding-place?
My "spare" is totally de-laminated but holds air (tube). The rim *seems* like one piece... but your firestone RH-5 looks a lot like what I have. With the tire installed it isn't obvious to me. I can certainly send some pics... It sounds again as if they *must be* split rims (or lock-rings) unless they were replaced before I got it. I'm pretty sure they were not, despite the engine-swap.
I suppose I could do the obvious, heft the "spare" into my modern (only 20 years old) pickup and take it to the truck-tire store and discuss all this with them, including whether they can/will/would mount new tires on them for me and whether they think it is a good/bad idea. They did put a new tube into one of my old tires some 15 years ago and didn't wince at all, but I think they *did* reference "using the cage" to work on it which is maybe where I got the idea they might be split!
I was waiting to go see the tire guys to have a second rim (from my left front) in hand to take in and buy a matched pair (if it makes sense), have a good spare and consider what to do about the rears.
Chances are most if not all of your rims will turn out to be the dreaded RH-5. Pretty much a traditionally sized bias tube tire with a "drop center" looking feature on the riveted rim and the lack of an obvious split ring pretty much dictates that. If you are still in doubt, pictures of these features (or lack there of) can help.
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